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Current time: July 29, 2025, 1:51 pm

Poll: Were you consistent concerning the number of lives you saved?
This poll is closed.
I was consistent: Same # of people lived/died in both experiments.
17.65%
3 17.65%
I was inconsistent: 5 died in one experiment, 1 died in the other.
82.35%
14 82.35%
Total 17 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics
(January 26, 2018 at 7:10 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(January 26, 2018 at 11:34 am)SteveII Wrote: Intrinsic (from Mirriam Webster)
adjective
belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing 
Synonyms: built-in, constitutional, constitutive, essential, hardwired, immanent, inborn, inbred, indigenous, ingrain, ingrained (also engrained), innate, integral, inherent, native, natural

Foundational to Christian ethics is the sanctity of all human life. This is rooted in the belief that humans have intrinsic purpose and value because we are made in the image of God (Imago Dei). There is no intrinsic value of humans under a naturalist worldview. The distinction can be seen in your two scenarios and the ensuing discussions on them.
Our value, in that case, does not properly belong to us, but to god.  It is only by some similarity that we have it, and if we were not "made in his image"...whatever the hell that means..we would not have it.

Value is subjective but nevertheless we have this value that cannot be separated from us because of who assigned us the value. In addition, made in the image of God is full of meaning including free will, ability to reason, emotions, ability to have meaningful relationships, a sense of morality, a sense of justice, a sense of aesthetics, a sense of self-sacrifice, a desire for meaning/purpose, etc. 

Quote:Meanwhile, your notion that whatever value we have would not be intrinsic in a naturalists worldview is absurd.  It may not be god value, a value that depends upon and apes whatever god is or whatever value god places in us....but so what?  

I do think that we have intrinsic value, and because it's intrinsic -to human beings-..it has fuck all to do with gods even if there were gods...which there aren't.

Then tell me, at what exact point in evolutionary history did we move from the law of survival of the fittest to that of having intrinsic value that supersede the process that got us to that point and HOW exactly did that work? It sure seems that by definition, you cannot evolve intrinsic value.

(January 26, 2018 at 6:40 pm)SaStrike Wrote: It's a human trait. Humans brought their traits along when they invented and maintained a religion (christianity for example).

A religion is not some external factor. It is part of the human worldview. How can you claim it as separate lol. Humans didn't base their ethics on a religion, the religion was based around human ethics (partly at least, majority of Christian history is quite disturbing). But I'm referring to the parts that the mindless masses are to obey.

Your opinion is irrelevant to my point--which was that a Christian ethical framework deals with these questions differently due to a significant difference in the view on the value of human life (and why). You can't have a discussion and learn something about the other side if all you want to do is tell the other person they are wrong,
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Messages In This Thread
Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:22 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 24, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 26, 2018 at 9:46 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 11:39 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 24, 2018 at 11:43 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by paulpablo - January 24, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Magilla - January 26, 2018 at 10:35 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 12:08 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Aegon - January 24, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by I_am_not_mafia - January 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 24, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by LastPoet - January 24, 2018 at 2:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 24, 2018 at 3:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:36 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 7:24 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 7:36 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 11:49 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 10:34 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:26 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vorlon13 - January 24, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by brewer - January 24, 2018 at 1:20 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Rev. Rye - January 24, 2018 at 11:16 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 1:27 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Catholic_Lady - January 24, 2018 at 1:52 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Aegon - January 24, 2018 at 1:48 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Longhorn - January 24, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by RoadRunner79 - January 24, 2018 at 3:03 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 3:44 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by paulpablo - January 24, 2018 at 4:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 24, 2018 at 5:57 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 24, 2018 at 6:07 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 11:43 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Haipule - January 24, 2018 at 9:17 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Cinjin - January 24, 2018 at 10:09 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Haipule - January 24, 2018 at 10:24 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by brewer - January 24, 2018 at 10:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Athene - January 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 10:52 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 24, 2018 at 11:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 12:27 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 24, 2018 at 11:44 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by chimp3 - January 25, 2018 at 12:09 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 25, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DodosAreDead - January 25, 2018 at 12:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 25, 2018 at 2:49 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 9:03 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 9:41 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 25, 2018 at 4:10 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by shadow - January 25, 2018 at 10:10 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Angrboda - January 25, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 11:50 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 11:59 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 25, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by shadow - January 25, 2018 at 7:51 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 25, 2018 at 8:58 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 25, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 26, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 28, 2018 at 2:53 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Grandizer - January 28, 2018 at 4:14 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 12:28 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by vulcanlogician - January 26, 2018 at 12:39 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 1:03 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by polymath257 - January 26, 2018 at 9:59 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 26, 2018 at 12:32 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 26, 2018 at 6:40 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 27, 2018 at 1:17 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 2:34 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 27, 2018 at 3:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 27, 2018 at 8:04 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Whateverist - January 28, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 27, 2018 at 12:06 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SteveII - January 28, 2018 at 9:54 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by DLJ - January 28, 2018 at 11:32 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 28, 2018 at 8:40 am
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Amarok - January 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 5:29 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:25 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 6:28 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by SaStrike - January 30, 2018 at 6:39 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by bennyboy - January 30, 2018 at 11:01 pm
RE: Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics - by Sal - January 30, 2018 at 9:20 am

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