Trolley Problem/Consistency in Ethics

[SteveII]

Value is subjective but nevertheless we have this value that cannot be separated from us because of who assigned us the value. In addition, made in the image of God is full of meaning including free will, ability to reason, emotions, ability to have meaningful relationships, a sense of morality, a sense of justice, a sense of aesthetics, a sense of self-sacrifice, a desire for meaning/purpose, etc. 

Then tell me, at what exact point in evolutionary history did we move from the law of survival of the fittest to that of having intrinsic value that supersede the process that got us to that point and HOW exactly did that work? It sure seems that by definition, you cannot evolve intrinsic value.

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Your opinion is irrelevant to my point--which was that a Christian ethical framework deals with these questions differently due to a significant difference in the view on the value of human life (and why). You can't have a discussion and learn something about the other side if all you want to do is tell the other person they are wrong,

Completely missing the point. In your previous post you claimed that "western human ethics are based on/influenced by christian values, which is why humans have intrinsic value"

This is your opinion, with no evidence and is contradictory. Firstly, eastern (basically all over the world actually) humans have intrinsic value there too (christian influence not included). Human traditions and ethics have been passed down and written into christianity (not the other way round) is all I'm saying.

What I'm asking is for an explanation or proof of your claims. Explanation for why 1) Human morality far out-dates christianity. 2) christianity has CHANGED ethics wise as humans around the world have changed. I get humans can change and grow, so they can change their minds. But explain why christianity has changed its mind on certain topics. (God was wrong?) First versions and the history, of christianity has been appalling.

Okay.

This is what I said:

I think that even most atheist in western society believe that individuals have intrinsic value (just for being human). This is not a conclusion from their worldview--but the influence Christianity has had on the culture for a millennium. That is one reason why people say the US was founded on Christian principles--because a lot of our views on freedom have to do with this issue.

First, Eastern philosophies gave us the India caste system and totalitarian governments all over Asia right up until the 20th century. There is still significant human rights struggles in that part of the world as a result of millenniums of cultures that did not value any notion of "inalienable rights" just because you were a person. Plain and simple, these cultures, as a whole, did not believe humans have intrinsic value.

Second, you bring up "morality far out-dates Christianity". That is not my point at all. I discussing a narrow concept as it relates to human value and used a very specific word for a reason. Intrinsic. My position is that you cannot evolve or reason to intrinsic value. As I said above to Khem: ...tell me, at what exact point in evolutionary history did we move from the law of survival of the fittest to that of having intrinsic value that supersede the process that got us to that point and HOW exactly did that work? It sure seems that by definition, you cannot evolve intrinsic value.

Modern western natural human rights are directly linked to Christian thinking so much so that the Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

If you think that humans have evolved intrinsic value, that is an affirmative position and as such, if you wish to make the point, requires you to have logical reasons to believe so.