RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 2, 2018 at 10:45 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2018 at 10:50 am by RoadRunner79.)
Back to the topic.... I think there is an question that wasn't answered, that should be.
If it is said, that a line contains a continuum of points (however you choose to define them). Despite the fact, that this supposed infinity ends at 1 which is contradictory to saying that it is infinite in number in itself. (note: I'll use one as a destination in this writing, although it may be another length) What is the point immediately prior to 1? There is necessarily an instance, where you transition from "not 1" to "1" while traveling along this line.
I don't think that those proposing an actual infinite can answer the question. I believe that this question shows the bait and switch that is occurring (whether the presenter knows it or not). I think it is also why I have found difficulty in these conversations in having someone define what the term "point" is. (It much easier to play fast and loose, if you do not define your terms). If the points along the line are in fact infinite, then there cannot be a transition from "not 1" to "1". As the argument goes, no matter how small the number is between our last point and the destination, we can always make up another number which is yet smaller (nature of the decimal system). And we can repeat this over and over again, never reaching 1. The time doesn't matter; this will never end (which is correctly the definition of infinite) . This is what Zeno's dichotomy (runners) paradox shows . And I don't think that this is being addressed. To get from "not 1" to "1" you have to end the infinity (thus not infinite).
If you follow the logic and the procedure that is used to get an infinity in this way, then you cannot logically reach the destination either (not if you are consistent). Adding an infinity of points of time, does not change here that the process will never end (which is why time is inconsequential). The fact, that it does end, and that motion is possible, shows that this idea of a infinity in any given line and any given motion, shows that this idea is not logical (or at least the way it is argued is not logical).
(March 2, 2018 at 10:10 am)Grandizer Wrote:(March 2, 2018 at 10:00 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: LOL.... They say speculative.... I say highly imaginative (perhaps science fiction would be a better category.)
Well, that's your ignorance speaking. I'm sure most people laughed in the past at the idea of the earth being round and not being the center of the universe, but little did they know how wrong they were. You keep laughing in your ignorance, while scientists (people far smarter than you and I) continue to do a great job in their respective domains.
And the multiverse idea is speculative in the sense that there is no hardcore evidence for it, but there are good reasons to take it seriously. And that is why these smart people do take it seriously. Finite universe is speculation as well, and it's getting less and less likely over time as opposed to an infinite universe.
Ok.... and the skeptic in me asks what are those "good reasons"? But that is not the topic here.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther