Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[Jenny A]

I will respond to this by stating that every single major mythology and even the doctrines of some Christian denominations evolved from ancient Babylonian pagan religion.

The peoples of Ancient Mesopotamia, being the cradle of civilization changed from monotheism to polytheism, for example, Abraham was from the city of Ur which was a city of Sumeria, Abraham left the city in search of the one true God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod

A confrontation between Nimrod and Abraham is said to have taken place, according to several Jewish and Islamic traditions. Some stories bring them both together in a cataclysmic collision, seen as a symbol of the confrontation between Good and Evil, and/or as a symbol of monotheism against polytheism.

Everyone is familiar with the tower of Babel (which meant the 'gate of God', 'Bab' meaning gate and 'El' meaning God, and more importantly "El Shaddai" is another name for the one God) story where at one time everyone spoke the same language but were confused and ended up speaking many different languages, but the same could be said with religion, one God turned in to many gods.

As people migrated out, the Babylonian pagan religion spread throughout the world by way of Egypt, Greece and Rome.

For example Both Horus and Odin sacrifice one of their eyes
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11548-nimrod

When Nimrod was informed that Abraham had come forth from the furnace uninjured, he remitted his persecution of the worshiper of Yhwh; but on the following night he saw in a dream a man coming out of the furnace and advancing toward him with a drawn sword. Nimrod thereupon ran away, but the man threw an egg at him; this was afterward transformed into a large river in which all his troops were drowned, only he himself and three of his followers escaping. Then the river again became an egg, and from the latter came forth a small fowl, which flew at Nimrod and pecked out his eye.

Who is Nimrod?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod

The first biblical mention of Nimrod is in the Table of Nations. He is described as the son of Cush, grandson of Ham, and great-grandson of Noah; and as "a mighty one in the earth" and "a mighty hunter before the Lord". This is repeated in the First Book of Chronicles 1:10, and the "Land of Nimrod" used as a synonym for Assyria or Mesopotamia, is mentioned in the Book of Micah 5:6:

   And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

Genesis says that the "beginning of his kingdom" (reshit mamlakto) were the towns of "Babel, Erech, Akkad and Calneh in the land of Shinar" (Mesopotamia) (Gen 10:10)

http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/...901_q.html

Nimrod means "tyrant". He led the Sumerians of Babylon to pay tribute to the skies (sun, moon, stars, planets) with the sacrifice of their children. The Tower of Babel was built for this purpose, echoed in other cultures such as the Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas. Since the head of this government was such an idolatrous tyrant, Shem (Nimrod's uncle) killed him. Nimrod's mother, Semiramis, consoled the people by making them believe the child she carried was Nimrod "reincarnated" -- and named him "Duzu" (Tammuz), Babylonian for the son who rises. This Duzu went into the groves (forests) and placed a gift on a tree to honor Nimrod each year at the winter solstice. It has been said that Duzu was the offspring of Nimrod, who mated with his mother. Nimrod became known as Baal, meaning LORD, and was worshipped by the Babylonians as the sun in the sky -- thus the origin of "going to the heavens" at death.

Therefore it is my position that the Norse god Odin is derived from previously held concepts and can reasonably be dismissed as being real.

I would be interested to hear a comparison of the Babylonian Myth with the Norse Mythology Huggy. The Norse Myths do incorporate some aspects of Greek Mythology, but it's tangential. For example there are three fate like creatures weaving the past, present and future at the bottom of the world tree. There is a Hell like hot world, but it's not where the damned are sent. It will however, in the end engulf all worlds at the end. Odin hung from a tree in agony with a spear in his side, but it was not for anyone's sins. He traded pain for the ability to read magic runes. He traded an eye for wisdom. The sky is a dome, abet made from a giants skull. But there isn't much one to one correspondence of gods or tales about them.

Odin is no Zeus. He is not the strongest, but the wisest. He is the creator of men whom he and his brothers equipped to life on their own. Asengaard is a fortress not a place where gods sup ambrosia.

The Norse Gods are locked in a war to keep the giants from taking over all worlds. It a battle they are doomed to lose as the Frost Giants continue to grow and are thus winning the arms race. But even if the gods did somehow win, the great world tree that as you might guess, supports all worlds, is doomed. There are poisoned wells as its roots. It will die and fall. There is no salvation. The gods are not eternal. They can be and sometimes are killed. The gods must pay real prices for things. They suffer long term loss for the common good. They are also for the most part loyal husband's and wives who do not stray. Odin and Thor do not spend their time seducing mortal women.

But the stories about these gods are often trickster tales concerning Loki, how is part giant. He is not a creature to be worshiped. He is happily amoral and too clever by half. He gets the gods into and out of much trouble. One goddess is unmarried. Many tales revolve around giants wanting to marry her, not rape, marry. She is no Diana deviated to virginity. The problem is not marriage itself, but the potential bridegroom.

It is a dark world view in the long run where what you do in the present is what matters. The end is predetermined. Sacrifice , strength, and wisdom are admired and demonstrated.

It is precisely this no free lunch aspect of the Norse Gods that makes them more real than, either the Greek gods, or the early Hebrew myths.

Obviously, The Norse peoples received a clearer vision of the real state of affairs than the muddied softer visions of the Greeks and Babylonians. These Norse Gods are real.