Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 19, 2025, 2:22 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(March 12, 2018 at 12:06 pm)Mathilda Wrote: Name something that began to exist and tell us the exact moment this would have happened and the cause.

You might be able to manage it, I don't know. But for sure you can't say this about everything.


Item (cause)
Most of the elements/compounds that make up my keyboard began to exist (stars, pressure, other chemical reactions)

So your keyboard began to exist billions of years ago? At which point? When the last atom in your keyboard became the necessary element required for the chemical reaction? When the elements were used in the final chemical reactions that make up the matter in your keyboard? When it was finally asembled.


(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: This post (me, electricity, my computer components, the internet and all the hardware necessary to maintain that connection)

When did it begin to exist? When you started typing it? When you hit send? When the server received the response? When the server unlocked the database after updating it? When the webserver first displayed it because someone refreshed the thread?



(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: I began to exist. (parents, biological processes)

When your father's sperm cell invaded the wall of your mother's egg? When the egg started dividing? When you were born?


(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: My office began to exist (a builder, some supplies)

When the very first elements were formed that make up the office? When the final brick was laid down? When you moved in and started using it as an office? When the final fixture was fitted?


(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Our sun began to exist (dense gasses and whatnot)

When it was still a nebular? When the shockwave of a supernova hit it? When the ignition first started with the first atom? When the last atom in the nebular got swallowed up? When the first photon of light was emitted?

(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Our galaxy began to exist (more of the same)

More of the same.


(March 12, 2018 at 1:08 pm)SteveII Wrote: Now give me examples of things that don't have causes. 

Lest you think you can play around, let's use the same definition of the word:

cause
kôz/
noun

  1. 1.
    a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.

No. Let's not use that definition. Because my entire point is that using the word 'cause' in the KCA is equivocation and conflation. The word is meant to be used as short hand to communicate information quickly. Fine in every day language if I am going to say "Sorry, I caused that explosion", but not precise enough to hang an entire belief system on.

This is because reality is not broken down into discrete events. It is a continuous changing process made up of a myriad of smaller continuous processes. Using the short hand term of 'cause' that is useful for our every day lives when talking about how the universe we currently see came about is conflation and takes the word out of scope.

So let's see the KCA re-written without the use of the word 'cause' in a way that acknowledges that the universe continually changes.

And if you did that then it still wouldn't help because I can even make the same argument for the word 'thing'. When does a thing begin and a thing end?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic - by I_am_not_mafia - March 12, 2018 at 1:27 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  It's Darwin Day tomorrow - logic and reason demands merriment! Duty 7 1103 February 13, 2022 at 10:21 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
Photo The atrocities of religiosity warrant our finest. Logic is not it Ghetto Sheldon 86 9585 October 5, 2021 at 8:41 pm
Last Post: Rahn127
  Neil DeGrasse Tyson on Disproving God Mechaghostman2 158 40010 July 14, 2021 at 3:52 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  First order logic, set theory and God dr0n3 293 43141 December 11, 2018 at 11:35 am
Last Post: T0 Th3 M4X
  Disproving the christian (and muslim) god I_am_not_mafia 106 34913 March 15, 2018 at 6:57 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  a challenge All atheists There is inevitably a Creator. Logic says that suni_muslim 65 18336 November 28, 2017 at 5:02 pm
Last Post: Fidel_Castronaut
  What is logic? Little Rik 278 73876 May 1, 2017 at 5:40 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  What is your Opinion on Having Required Classes in Logic in Schools? Salacious B. Crumb 43 11146 August 4, 2015 at 12:01 am
Last Post: BitchinHitchins
  Arguing w/ Religious Friends z7z 14 4353 June 5, 2015 at 4:53 pm
Last Post: Cephus
  Logic vs Evidence dimaniac 34 14773 November 25, 2014 at 10:41 pm
Last Post: bennyboy



Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)