Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[I_am_not_mafia]

Second, your rewriting significantly reduces the scope of the premise by making it about things inside the universe. This makes it useless to talk about things outside the universe.

But this is precisely what the KCA does that you like so much

The KCA is an argument that applies to all reality. Not just our laws of physics that started a finite time ago.

OK let's recap here.

Your KCA argues that things begin to exist and everything has a cause.

I point out that things do not ever instantly begin to exist but gradually change over time. You ignore this point and talk about discrete causes instead.

I rewrote your KCA as a continuous version rather than discrete.

You object to this by saying the continuous version fails because it makes assumption that the first two steps apply understanding of what happens inside the universe to what happens outside the universe.

I point out that the same argument applies to the discrete version that you think is correct.

You do not respond to that but instead continue making the assumption that there is more to the universe than matter and energy.

So tell me why the continuous version of the KCA is any less valid than the discrete version that you know and love.

Both versions assume that what happens inside the universe applies outside.

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.

1. Every stable pattern of matter and energy in the universe first had to develop over time (continuous version of begins to exist) and this happened because of how it was shaped by a larger environment (continuous version of cause).
2. The universe itself first had to develop over time.

So answer without trying to logic meaningless concepts into existence and using nebulous words like 'being' which allow for equivocation. Tell me:

• Why assume that there is more to the universe than matter and energy?
  
• Why it is OK to argue things begin to exist in an instant in the real world when they never do?
  
• Why you can use this incorrect premise about how inside the universe works to argue how the outside works?
  
• Why you cannot use the correct premise that nothing begins in an instant inside the universe to argue how the outside works?
  

You have logical problems with anything material "always existing". You cannot have a series of causes/effects going back forever because you can't complete an actual infinity of steps

How do you know that you can't have an infinite number of steps? Isn't your whole belief system devoted to an idea of an eternity in Heaven or Hell?