Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[I_am_not_mafia]

Stevell, your whole method of 'debating' is to forget about what we've been talking about but to equivocate with nebulous terms that need defining and serve as a distraction from the original argument. It's a typical theist tactic because it means that so much gets talked about that anyone reading it is left with the impression that the issue is too complex to be resolved. So I am not going to repeat myself. I'll just provide quotes and let you remember that this has already been discussed. I shall not bother answering again if it just means repeating myself.

You did not rewrite the KCA. You wrote another argument. Notice that you did not address the premises, show why they were wrong (a defeater) or why they might not be right (undercutting).

I rewrote the KCA so that it does not equivocate with 'begins to exist' as discussed here:

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
Which number(s) do you think are false?

The KCA fails at the first premise.

Name something that began to exist and tell us the exact moment this would have happened and the cause.

Your examples refuted here.


But then you forget it again later on when answering points b & c:

b. Why are you hung up on the word "instant"? It is not used in the argument.

Under your restrictive definitions nothing really begins to exist after the first moments of the universe. Fine. But you are making a distinction without a difference.

It does make a difference because of:

This shows that the Kalam Cosmological argument only works because it uses simplistic every day language to gloss over the specific details. It only convinces you if you think about the problem simplistically. It gives the illusion of providing an explanation but only if you refuse to ask any more questions.

a. Why assume that there is more to the universe than matter and energy?

a. for this argument, I am not assuming there is more to the universe than energy and matter.

The universe includes all energy and matter. Yet you said:

Yes but why would you exclude things outside of our universe?

You also assume that there are laws acting on energy that are not understood by saying that your god is supernatural and that thermodynamics does not apply.