RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 16, 2018 at 12:14 pm
(This post was last modified: March 16, 2018 at 12:58 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(March 16, 2018 at 9:17 am)SteveII Wrote: As I explained above, you are zeroing in on one aspect of causation that is obviously too restrictive when talking about thing that may have happened prior to the first moments of the universe.
1. Everything that begins to exist has an efficient cause.
How do you know this?
Also, this is just silliness if you think about it for more than five minutes:
Quote:Matter: the change or movement which is determined by the material that composes the moving or changing things. For a table, that might be wood; for a statue, that might be bronze or marble.
Versus:
Quote:Agent: a change or movement's efficient or moving "cause", consists of things apart from the thing being changed or moved, which interact so as to be an agency of the change or movement. For example, the efficient cause of a table is a carpenter, or a person working as one, and according to Aristotle the efficient cause of a boy is a father.
These two things are indistinguishable with regard to any physical thing within the universe. I could just as easily reason that the carpenter is the material cause for a table, seeing as humans are made of the same ‘material’; atoms; as wood. Along with everything else that exists in the universe for that matter. What is the material cause of a sand dune? What is the efficient cause? How can you tell the difference?
Perhaps the universe’s efficient cause is also a material cause.
As Vulc explained in the beginning, the KCA commits a composition fallacy. There is no getting around this.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Wiser words were never spoken.
