RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 18, 2018 at 8:51 am
(March 16, 2018 at 8:54 pm)possibletarian Wrote:(March 16, 2018 at 8:36 pm)SteveII Wrote: Sorry, it's not. Both of those things are ideas. Ideas are not material they are abstract. Reliance on the material for conveyance does not make them material.
But that's the point, can you show they are anything but material ? They don't only rely on material for their communication, but also for their very creation, communication, and understanding.
Do they exist or are created outside of a material brain? if so can you demonstrate this ?
Can you give an single example of abstract thought without a brain ? Can you show they are anything more than material brain pulses. ?
Here is a good debate on the subject for those interested
https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/que...bout-ideas
Idea's like poetry and music are simply information created materially and passed materially from one place (or person) to another.
Your last sentence is the proof.
A novel or a symphony is something newly created that is not the same as the material object that might contain them. It did not exist before, it is not a reformulation of matter. It is new information. There is no way around this, you have a newly created immaterial object. Insisting that it is material because it relies on material things to exist is just pointing out a feature of our universe.
