RE: Quick YEC Debunks
March 19, 2018 at 8:11 am
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2018 at 8:16 am by Fake Messiah.)
(March 18, 2018 at 2:27 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Moral laws transcend nations, and people, and individuals.
No they don't. As Nietzsche stated, "there are altogether no moral facts". Humans give themselves moral codes wherever they live because humans are a moral--that is a social--species.
Every society has its morality, but each is different. What is deemed good in one society is often deemed bad in another; for instance, killing is immoral in most societies (under most but not all circumstances), but head-hunting is or was a valuable and appropriate behavior in some societies. In other words, morality is not absolute or universal but relative.
We do design our morals by listening to other people and whether they suffer or not, they are not naturally engraved in us because if that was the case we would simply know them and would not spend centuries discussing them.
(March 18, 2018 at 2:27 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Now, I would agree, that Jesus never laid out a set of laws to be carried over into the New Testament. He didn't say, to do this, and don't do this. In actuality the Christian is no longer bound by the law at all. In another article by Frank Turek [here] he points out that the law was never meant to be permanent ((Jer. 31:31-34; Ezek. 16:59-63; Hos. 2:18). That the this is the New Covenant that is shown in the New Testament.
Well, I find myself arguing with one side of Christianity of a RR who admits that OT laws were bad, like slavery, but says they are not to be obliged anymore. I mean are you that oblivious to other Christians? Even on this forum you have Christians that see what you wrote is rubbish because they see those laws as good, including the slavery.
Or take that Loy Mauch, a christian Republican and former member of the Arkansas State House of Representatives, who said: "If slavery were so God-awful, why didn't Jesus or Paul condemn it [in the Bible]?"
That Frank Turek really tiptoes around Matthew 5:17-19 which is pretty clear "whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven"
He takes that it as allegorical because, as you say, "In Matthew 23:23 "Jesus criticizes the pharisees for following the letter of the law, while neglecting the spirit of the law."
Big deal because in other parts, Jesus criticizes the pharisees for not following the letter of the law which was killing of children that did not "honor their parents":
And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” -- Mark 7:9
You could say he makes it clear that the old laws must be obeyed no matter the "the culture" people find themselves in and we could even say the progress of morality.
It's all part of conflicting nature of Bible so in the end you do find yourself picking and choosing:
(March 18, 2018 at 2:27 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: They include things like Murder, theft, sexual immorality.
And of course let me guess gays are against god but not pork. Are you going to be like that Christian Sally Kern, a former Oklahoma state legislator, who said that homosexuality posed a direct and immediate threat to the United States even bigger then terrorism? And with the rest of the christian crowd like Tony Perkins, Bryan Fischer, Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, Marcus Bachmann, Mike Huckabee, Gary Bauer, Peter LaBarbera and Rick Santorum, as well as homophobic preachers who all blame gays for natural disasters and some even said that gays should be killed.
Not very "loving your neighbor". I mean I would be happy if Christianity was just as you summoned it "To love God, and to love your neighbor." but it's more than that and it's sad that you don't see it. Suddenly that "love your neighbor" or "Don't kill" lose their meaning when sinners that offend god are in question.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"