Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[polymath257]

Another aspect of all of this is that most things do not have a *single* cause. The vast majority of events have multiple, converging, causes.

And that suggests that even if you disallow infinite regress (which is a logical possibility), that there will be *multiple* uncaused causes, possibly at different times and different locations.

And, of course, we know this to actually be the case: many quantum events are, in fact, uncaused causes and there are so many of these that the whole argument is blown out of the water.

How do we know this?   How is it determined that something is without a cause?

Look into Bell's inequalities. It turns out that any causal system has to obey certain laws of correlation simply because it is a causal system.

The universe has been observed not to obey those laws, so it is not causal.

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-and then we reassert ourselves.  There's some unknown cause underneath the quantum this or that's.
(it's jesus)

Except that isn't an option. The point is that *all* causal systems have to obey certain laws of correlation but quantum events do NOT obey those laws. Hence, they are uncaused. This is the whole point of Bell's inequalities.

The only way around this conclusion is to violate another aspect of causality: that causes lie in the past, which forces them to lie in the past light cone. This would then force a type of 'super-determinism' where everything is uniquely determined throughout all time and space by any single event.

Most people do not really understand the huge impact the violation of Bell's inequalities have on our understanding of causality.