(March 20, 2018 at 6:42 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:(March 20, 2018 at 6:02 am)Brian37 Wrote: Dude you are pulling a bait and switch. Everyone in the world back then treated kids, especially females as chattel. Instead of just focusing on your part of the world, try studying world history. If there was not ambiguous language in holy books, there would be no argument. I say that to Christians too. The age of consent in the Americas even today can be as low as 14 depending on country. Still plenty of Muslim men, just like Warren Jeffs, our right wing sicko here, who DO use their holy books to justify child brides.
You make the same bad argument Christians do. If your deity didn't want this then there should be no way to ignore his words or twist his words. Allah or Jesus, if they don't want kid fucking, then why not make it clear? If this god is all powerful, and nothing happens that they don't want happening why would this all powerful god fail to make it clear?
The truth is there is no Christian God and their is no Muslim or Jewish or Hindu ect ect ect God. THAT WAS THEN this is now. The idea of bartering children was RAMPANT in all of antiquity. You not liking how others of your same religion does not change the fact they also are using the same book. BUT AGAIN, that was then, and not just your religion, ALL of antiquity.
How hard would it be for an "all powerful god" to make it clear, "No sex until the age of 18". Now you show me those exact words in the Koran or bible for that matter. You wont find them.
God exists, and he himself "allowed it" to happen, but he didn't "order" people to do it.
Instead; he ordered them not to. That's the concept in the Quran.
God created both good and evil, and even inspired humans to do -and produce- both, but inspiring is different than order. I have Quranic verses that prove my point.
But these bible verses "order the believers" to commit pedophilia. And mentioned it to be "a normal thing" that is also "an example". That would tell me a lot about what I might suffer from if a "Christian believer" waged war on me. Tells me too why the Catholic church is full of pedophiles -if these were the verses they believe to come from a divine source-.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones
It seems that the attacks that targeted "the little ones" were ordered by God himself. The Quran never mentioned such a thing. The Muslims who do so; are:
1-Taking Christians as example.
2-Take the Hadith as a source
So again;Brian:where is similar explicit verses in the Quran?
"Allowed"
No, it reflects the mistake ruling powers thought in their "divine right". It was an order, just like if a King told you to go to battle. Ancient Egypt and ancient China's rulers had the same attitude. If you, were successful as a ruler back then, you thought your success was coming from the god/s or spirits.
No, sorry, back then if a ruler wanted something, you did it. If you did not do it, you risked being kicked out of that community or worse, death.
Most humans in antiquity were uneducated, unless you were part of the warrior class or ruling class you had no say, and even in the warrior class and ruling class, while you had more power, dissent was still a huge risk.
The only thing that can be argued about antiquity is that you could find more tolerant rulers and less tolerant rulers. But all of antiquity was run by top ruling family.
Not even the Ancient Greeks and Romans were a modern western democracy. They too were ruled by a top family . Some individual rulers were tolerant and others were not. Some were more aware of backlash if they were too brutal and others didn't give a fuck, like Caligula. But the same can be said in all the nations of antiquity. But what everyone had in common no matter where in the world was a ruling class.
"Allowed" funny how "allowing" brutality would not fly in our modern western view of family life.
If parent in the west sat with folded arms and "allowed" their child to be kidnapped, raped and or murdered, Child Protective Services would have the parent arrested.
