Question for the heterosexual men of AF

[paulpablo]

I don’t agree that you can’t become unattracted to someone. I was attracted to a guy until he started talking about his love for trump and then he suddenly became ick to me.

Yeah. I don't think you're lying to yourself by no longer being attracted to a Trumptard lol.

I think you can become unattracted to someone. I just question in some cases whether it's genuine. I don't think "They used to have a penis" is anything but being in denial and recoiling for transphobic reasons.

I mean, imagine if one day far into the future.... sex change operations became so perfect that you could literally swap the person's DNA atom for atom with lasers and even their cromosones changed... so going from a man to a woman biologically is such a perfect transistion that the resulting adult is biologically identical to a woman born a woman... INCLUDING cromosones.

If there are still people in that reality, getting turned off "But BEFORE THEIR ATOMS AND DNA CHANGED THEY USED TO HAVE MALE D.N.A AND A PENIS!"..... then I strongly suspect the genuineness of such a recoiling. If they're literally identical mentally and physically to a biological female, they're a perfect copy, who cares what they used to be, no one can even make the "low quality artifical vagina" argument now. They'd even be able to give birth like a normal biological female the transituation would be so perfect. I can't see "Ew! they used to have a penis!" in that reality as anything other than being motivated at least subonsciously by transphobia. And I don't see how any of the differences in this reality with its imperfect trasisitoning, makes any difference, if the transistion was concvincing enough that the person found them very attractive until they knew where they'd come from. It's not like they're a bad person or a Trump supporter, it's like they had a different set of genitals in the past, so what? Again, I don't think there's anything wrong with not being attracted to penises, but to not be attracted to someone *because* they have a penis is different to me. I'm not attracted to guys because I happen to not like guys or penises. But I am not unattracted to guys BECAUSE they're guys or BECAUSE they have penises. It's not like I think there's anything wrong with them being a guy or having a penis. I just don't find it hot. I'm entirely open to the possibily of one day finding a guy with a penis I did find hot. I wouldn't pretend otherwise if I felt it.

Here's another example.... imagine a man who had a happy marriage and amazing sex life and was deeply in love with a woman for 30 years.... and it was one of the happiest marriages you could imagine. And neither of them wanted kids. Imagine that, magically, 30 years into the marriage they still find each other highly physically sexually attractive and they find each other's personalities incredibly hot too (I say "magically" because since when are 30 year long marrigages that spicy!. Hehe. That's a joke lol)..... but imagine then suddenly one day, at the peak of their passion.... the husband discovers that the wife actually had a sex change operation at 18 shortly before he met her..... and he suddenly recoiled and was like "Yuck you used to have a penis! I can't believe you used to have a penis and used to be a dude. I can't possibily find you attractive anymore!" and he runs off into the sunlight hiding his spicy boner and crying fake tears, and then he goes off and tells his friends how disgusting she is and how she's a dude.

I strongly suspect that guy would be a transphobe lol. Even without all the transphobic comments I added and made him say and how he behaved. Simply from the fact that there's no way he could have possibly been genuinely turned off after all that.

Now, maybe someone might have felt betratyed for not being told after all those years, and found betrayal a turn off. But that's another topic. And for what it's worth, I don't think it's a betrayal. I don't think being trans or cis is relevant.

Anyways, you know me, I'm not going to see it any other way.

For what it's worth... to repeat: If someone somehow *is* genuinely no longer attracted after learning that someone 'used to have a penis' (even that sounds transphobic to me because the transperson doesn't identity with the man that had a penis that they never felt like they were. They always felt like a woman with a woman's body so they never had a penis. Hence the transition. They physically became who they always were. They never had a penis. That body that they couldn't identify with had one before they transitioned into their true selves)...... if someone is no longer attracted after learning that..... genuinely. Then I don't think that's transphobic of them. No one is transphobic or bigoted or anything like that, for being attracted or not attracted to anything. We can't control what we're attracted to and that can't be bigoted. What I suspect is that such a person in those cases isn't genuinely no longer attracted even if they think they are, and that they are in fact in denial because the person who is actually appearing to them is the exact same person that they just found attractive before discovering some information that isn't a negative quality and isn't related to who they are now... I am really not convinced that it's genuine. I think that if someone really discovers WHY they recoil about the genitals someone USED to have, even AFTER they've fucked the artifical genitals that felt exactly as good to them as the real thing, and they'd never been able to tell the difference if no one had told them that the person used to have the opposite genitals.... if they discovered WHY they recoil at that info... it would be motivated by nothing by bigotry.

I think we both know that I'm not going to be able to see it any other way.... hehe. It just all makes sense to me.

Oh right, so yeah, to repeat: If anyone really is genuinely no longer attracted after discovering what genitals someone used to have, then that's not bigoted at all. I just don't believe them and no one is the absolute authority on their own urges, a lot of these things can be repressed.

Oh yeah the other thing I wanted to repeat was that I agree that no one has to stay attracted and people can become unattracted. I just am suspicious if someone pretends to no longer be attracted when they still are.

When you were no longer attracted to someone because you discovered they like Trump...... I really don't think you were pretending hehe. That's 100% genuine hehe. Trump lovers are not sexy. I might puke on a girl if I came in her and she then said "Do you like Trump? because I love trump." She'd get puke on her tits.

I bolded the parts I want to talk about.

I disagree that a trans male to female person never had a penis.  Just for the simple fact that they did, and they use the penis to create the vagina after removing the testicles that the person also has.

I think there's different levels to sexual attraction and depending on how you look at it different arguments can work.

If you're talking about raw primitive sexual attraction in my opinion it's safe to say there's some subconscious level of attraction between any straight people who have ovaries and sperm, and even beyond that sexual attraction towards any representation that there's a possibility of the ovaries and sperm being around.  
A straight man will have some level of attraction towards a rubber vagina, a cartoon drawing of one, pixels on a screen, whatever it is. Even if the sexual attraction is as low level as eyes being drawn to look at it due to primitive sexual interest.   

When people are talking about their expressed level of sexual attraction and their romantic relationships on the other hand, then conscious ideas have to be taken into consideration.  And I think that's even too simple because really it's how conscious ideas and primitive instincts combine.
At this level you can say people are un attracted to someone based on some kind of information, there's no pretending involved, but the conscious repulsion has mitigated subconscious desires so there's no longer any real expression of sexual attraction anymore.

As to whether it's transphobic or whether I'm a transphobe I'll have to put more thought into it because I have to head out now.