Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[I_am_not_mafia]

I don't mean to suggest that ideas don't exist.  They exist, but they do not exist in the way that physical objects do.  Nor do they existence independent of minds to think them.  This makes them a very different category of existing then that of physical objects. 

It might help instead to think of persistent patterns and you can then see that ideas are on the same scale as anything else that exists.

Take a table or inanimate object. That's actually at one end of the scale as it has the same atoms at the beginning of the stage where we would call that collection of atoms a table (as opposed to a tree for example) as it does at the end (before it becomes firewood or compost).

We exist as people, but we replace almost every cell in our body over a cycle of several years, except for neurons in the cerebral cortex. So even people are actually a persistent pattern that exists for a certain period of time. What's more that pattern changes quite radically over the course of its lifetime, from a single fertilised egg to someone dying of old age.

Clouds are the same. Air rises to the height where it reaches the dew point and it becomes too cold for the air to contain the water that it does so it condenses out to become the white vapour. This releases energy which allows the air to rise again continuing the process for a little bit further. A time lapse video of clouds developing into Cumulonimbus clouds is a quite example. What's more the air and water molecules can get replaced with new air depending on the cloud type.

As the saying goes, you can't step into the same river twice. Water is being flushed down and replaced with more water from higher above. It also flushes away the silt exposing more silt that was part of the river's environment that then becomes part of the river. It also changes shape throughout its lifetime, meandering through a field say or growing larger over time or drying up.

Societies or economies are made up of groups of people and businesses that form, die off, get replaced, or create new ones. Or can become part of it via immigration. So they too are persistent patterns.

A memory is a persistent pattern of neuronal firing. It changes each time it is recalled and restored. This memory can be written down but then when read can evoke similar patterns in the brain. Same goes for an idea.

The same applies for a concept, symphony, book or religion. It's on the other end of the scale from the table but they are still patterns that can persist through many different forms. But the crucial point is that they are persistent patterns reliant upon structures of matter and energy like anything else that exists.

It would be completely arbitrary and unwarranted to draw a distinction between all these examples of existence. If something exists then it does so because it is a persistent pattern. But different things change more or less radically throughout their lifetime or can exist in more or fewer different forms.