Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[GrandizerII]

Something must justify the description regardless of whether you are describing its material, form, purpose, or origin.

Human brains share lots of commonalities that lead to common observations and descriptions. You should accustom yourself to first resorting to what human psychology has to say about the human mind before jumping to unwarranted conclusions to do with the supernatural.

It exists eternally in the mind of God.

Pure ad hoc. There is no clear and conclusive evidence that an unembodied mind exists, or even can exist (in the objective sense of the term). I thought the whole point of arguments like the KCA (and the arguments by your beloved Aquinas) was that God can be extrapolated from this reality. Clearly, this has not been the case thus far.

So ultimately, the objection "those are just descriptions" is a double edged sword for those who use it to dismiss the reality of forms and purposes. Matter is also 'just' a description. There is a relationship between what things are, their existence, and how we describe the existence of those things. The decision to call some of those descriptions real while asserting that others are not is completely arbitrary. You need to give me some reason why the abstracted conception of a thing's matter is any more real than the abstract conception of it's form.

It seems like Jenny is talking about objects as a whole (including both matter and form) while you are talking about the material cause only (in objecting to what she has to say). I believe what Jenny is arguing is that an object that can be observed in the physical world (or our common human perception of it) is in a different plane of existence than an object that can only be perceived in the mind. Normally, when we talk about existence when it comes to the matter of God, we are not discussing whether or not God exists in the abstract world of the human mind.