RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
March 30, 2018 at 6:33 pm
(March 30, 2018 at 5:06 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:(March 30, 2018 at 4:50 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Define "cause" properly. Are we talking "material" or "efficient" or "formal" or "final" or some non-Aristotelian type of cause or a combination of types of causes?
By "cause", I simply mean that it is contingent or dependent on something else for that existence. For your Aristotelian list, then efficient would likely be the closest. I'm not getting overly complicated, or anything. It seems to me, that given your other statement, you would necessarily have to agree with the first premise of the KCA.
I can't agree with the premise if it's not even clear to me what is meant by "cause". You say "efficient" and I say "material". If "efficient" then the universe may or may not have a beginning, depending on what is required of an "efficient cause". But if "material" then the universe eternally exists. And if both "efficient and material", well, then, the universe eternally exists in such case also.
