My view and reasons for them. Atheist and Christians welcome here. (short)

[The Industrial Atheist]

I don;t recall it having ever been any sort of idea that I came up with at all.  As you mention.."historically", people have been believers.  I just never believed what so many of you believe.  I didn't know there was a name for it until much, much later. 

I think that is a perfectly reasonable answer. The only thing I will say is that you probably changed and started playing the dance when you did find out what it was called. I find myself in a state  of reevaluation knowing that what you are saying here about your beliefs is probably true. My only problem there is that I question where the point that your learned what it was called if you are an atheist since I think that is a pretty common belief which would be difficult to not know about.

People thought that the browns were a lesser race since a long time ago, as well.  I don;t know how anything you just wrote absolves your "historically" common god believing hypocrisy, why you feel that you can;t know whether or not gods exist, or why something being written on a cave wall is suddenly more likely to be true...........or that any of that would lead to anything miraculous or divine. Glad to clear up your misunderstanding, in my case..anyway.  Maybe you could clear some of the above up for me?

What makes you say I am automatically a hypocrite based on my beliefs? I am not saying those things lead to things that are miraculous or divine. 

Oh yeah, this guy's gonna be around here for a looooong time.....

I might duck out if it gets toxic >.<

And how do you know that we're not thinking for ourselves, Quick?  It's easy to fling out vague accusations at people who don't share your worldview; it's quite another thing to demonstrate the veracity of those accusations.  Show your work, please.

I am not saying that people don't think for themselves in all aspects of their life. IME, simply living life requires at least some thinking on your own. What I am talking about is where there is when you take a stance, and it is a stance many people have taken before you, you are probably going to use what those other people have said and follow it. In a way, I am saying people are groomed to know the "correct" way. There is a psychological component here of us vs them and in doing so, this leads to a certain correctness which leads to people not thinking on their own.

There are too many fallacies in that ^ for me to even begin... sorry matey.
The word god is a loaded word ... And if not of the bible, then what? advanced alien? we can do this all day?

There's a reason why I'm ignostic... It's like agnostic but with no sugar. (for people like me with no imagination)

I am not sure what the fallacies I am making are. IME ignostic is just apathy while agnostic is uncertainty. The latter leads to discovery and the former does not.

Can you give a specific example of what you mean here because without it this statement of yours looks like nothing more than word salad
I think the connect between an objective phenomena and your own interpretation of it might be so loose as to allow for the God hypothesis

Sure. Like take for example how in quantum mechanics that if you are looking for something, a different things happens than if you are not looking.

I'm very confused by your use of the word agnostic here, could you define the word 'agnosticism' for me.


This is not pantheism. What you have described here is a deity.

When I say agnostic what I am really saying is that I do not actually know whether that thing is true or not. I am unsure. 

I am not going to swet the details of what my belief is called or falls under, because I don't think it is important. I find what the actual belief is is more important than what it is called.

I had been a Christian from my early teens to mid thirties. I became disillusioned when I realized all those rules can't be followed, and all the guilt was for nothing. Sure I took advantage of available resources like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and Stenger. But the initiative was all me, and I was convinced rather than brainwashed.

So it all flowed from this: These rules are supposed to come from god, god is supposed to be supremely moral, these rules can't be followed, resulting in unjust suffering(guilt)
Therefore this supposed just god doesn't exist, or someone has been lying about what he wants and expects.

Again, I am not saying the discovery process of finding out what you believe wasn't your own doing, but that once you knew, you started to figure out what the rules of the game were and followed them, which then leads to less thinking on your own. It is the same basic thing you did for your christianity that you are doing for atheism.

Well, nothing happens in a vacuum. This goes for pretty much everything. Especially in the case of Victor Stenger's "God, the Failed Hypothesis" credible evidence was presented. Believing credible evidence is just basic. I suppose I could have tried to do all that research on my own, but I didn't have to. With anything, nobody starts from square one.

Now sometimes, charismatic people can convince you of things that aren't true, but I don't think this is the case here. Even if I had a  degree in Evolutionary Biology, I would have had to accept facts based on credible evidence to get to that point.

I mean, I could have gone back to being a Christian if I wanted to. In some ways my life would have been easier.