Quote:which leads me to believing everything is miraculous and everything is God.

Really?

Only a miracle would lead me to believe that .... And I'm still waiting...
When you say everything is God, you mean the God of the bible, right? What else is there?

A personal God? They're a dime a dozen...

(May 6, 2018 at 9:57 pm)ignoramus Wrote:

Quote:which leads me to believing everything is miraculous and everything is God.

Really?

Only a miracle would lead me to believe that .... And I'm still waiting...
When you say everything is God, you mean the God of the bible, right? What else is there?

A personal God? They're a dime a dozen...

Really.

Do you understand what I am saying? Can you see my PoV, because I don't think you are seeing it clearly. If you CAN in fact see where I am coming from, I would like you to tell me what you think it is that I believe. When you say it would take a miracle for you to believe something like that, what you are saying in a way is that your perception of reality is so precise that anything that appears to be an anomaly doesn't exist because you would always be smart enough to figure out why said thing appeared to be an anomaly. In essence, It's a claim that you are all knowing or close enough to it that you have no lapses in your perception. The reason I say this is because if there is even one single thing that happens that you do not understand/cannot account for due to its anomaly then you would have to admit that it is at the least possible for something to happen that is miraculous considering you wouldn't know the reason for the anomaly. Therefore, I can only assume you have never come across an anomaly in your life, which I think is a stretch. And this is assuming you remember every occurance of a possibility of an anomaly that could have happened in your life and you didn't simply forget that it happened or didn't give significance to it that it deserved and then forgot it happened.

I do not mean the God of the bible. I am very very agnostic towards what the bible says as a matter of fact. I am talking about my own subjective interpretation of how some things appear to be apart of something bigger than oneself and that this could be interpreted as the will of a greater being that is intentionally ambiguous in its dichotomies because it is very hard to see it's limitations and/or tangible observability.

(May 6, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Quick Wrote: My opinion is this: You have been taught the steps, what more is your belief than that? I don't believe many people thought up the idea there is no God on their own since historically speaking, humans have believed a God exists.  So I don't think they came to the conclusion themselves, but that this is something that is taught (or worse, they are simply believing in an antithesis). The point here is that people are not thinking for themselves. 

I don;t recall it having ever been any sort of idea that I came up with at all.  As you mention.."historically", people have been believers.  I just never believed what so many of you believe.  I didn't know there was a name for it until much, much later.  

Quote: I will say I am not a hypocrite in this manner considering I came to the only reasonable conclusion I could make, which is that in the debate of whether God is real or not, I find the only reasonable explanation is that I don't know, which leads me to thinking that because there is a debate about God in the first place that someone somewhere must be on to something a long time ago, which leads me to believing everything is miraculous and everything is God.

People thought that the browns were a lesser race since a long time ago, as well.  I don;t know how anything you just wrote absolves your "historically" common god believing hypocrisy, why you feel that you can;t know whether or not gods exist, or why something being written on a cave wall is suddenly more likely to be true...........or that any of that would lead to anything miraculous or divine.  

Glad to clear up your misunderstanding, in my case..anyway. Maybe you could clear some of the above up for me?

Oh yeah, this guy's gonna be around here for a looooong time.....

(May 6, 2018 at 1:52 pm)Quick Wrote:  I find whatever one's beliefs, one must learn the steps, and in that there is an inherent flaw: people are not thinking for themselves.

And how do you know that we're not thinking for ourselves, Quick?  It's easy to fling out vague accusations at people who don't share your worldview; it's quite another thing to demonstrate the veracity of those accusations.  Show your work, please.

(May 6, 2018 at 10:37 pm)Quick Wrote:

(May 6, 2018 at 9:57 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Really?

Only a miracle would lead me to believe that .... And I'm still waiting...
When you say everything is God, you mean the God of the bible, right? What else is there?

A personal God? They're a dime a dozen...

Really.

Do you understand what I am saying? Can you see my PoV, because I don't think you are seeing it clearly. If you CAN in fact see where I am coming from, I would like you to tell me what you think it is that I believe. When you say it would take a miracle for you to believe something like that, what you are saying in a way is that your perception of reality is so precise that anything that appears to be an anomaly doesn't exist because you would always be smart enough to figure out why said thing appeared to be an anomaly. In essence, It's a claim that you are all knowing or close enough to it that you have no lapses in your perception. The reason I say this is because if there is even one single thing that happens that you do not understand/cannot account for due to its anomaly then you would have to admit that it is at the least possible for something to happen that is miraculous considering you wouldn't know the reason for the anomaly. Therefore, I can only assume you have never come across an anomaly in your life, which I think is a stretch. And this is assuming you remember every occurance of a possibility of an anomaly that could have happened in your life and you didn't simply forget that it happened or didn't give significance to it that it deserved and then forgot it happened.

I do not mean the God of the bible. I am very very agnostic towards what the bible says as a matter of fact. I am talking about my own subjective interpretation of how some things appear to be apart of something bigger than oneself and that this could be interpreted as the will of a greater being that is intentionally ambiguous in its dichotomies because it is very hard to see it's limitations and/or tangible observability.

There are too many fallacies in that ^ for me to even begin... sorry matey.
The word god is a loaded word ... And if not of the bible, then what? advanced alien? we can do this all day?

There's a reason why I'm ignostic... It's like agnostic but with no sugar. (for people like me with no imagination)

Quick Wrote:I am talking about my own subjective interpretation of how some things appear to be apart of something bigger than oneself and that this could be interpreted as the will of a
greater being that is intentionally ambiguous in its dichotomies because it is very hard to see its limitations and / or tangible observability

Can you give a specific example of what you mean here because without it this statement of yours looks like nothing more than word salad
I think the connect between an objective phenomena and your own interpretation of it might be so loose as to allow for the God hypothesis

(May 6, 2018 at 10:37 pm)Quick Wrote: I do not mean the God of the bible. I am very very agnostic towards what the bible says as a matter of fact.

I'm very confused by your use of the word agnostic here, could you define the word 'agnosticism' for me.

Quote:I am talking about my own subjective interpretation of how some things appear to be apart of something bigger than oneself and that this could be interpreted as the will of a greater being that is intentionally ambiguous in its dichotomies because it is very hard to see it's limitations and/or tangible observability.

This is not pantheism. What you have described here is a deity.

I had been a Christian from my early teens to mid thirties. I became disillusioned when I realized all those rules can't be followed, and all the guilt was for nothing. Sure I took advantage of available resources like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and Stenger. But the initiative was all me, and I was convinced rather than brainwashed.

So it all flowed from this: These rules are supposed to come from god, god is supposed to be supremely moral, these rules can't be followed, resulting in unjust suffering(guilt)
Therefore this supposed just god doesn't exist, or someone has been lying about what he wants and expects.