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Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
And so we begin the process of debunking flimsy rationalizations...

(September 8, 2011 at 4:30 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: You know the word contradiction has a specific meaning right? You can’t just call something a contradiction and it becomes one.
God creating plants and vegetation on day three and then turning around and creating more vegetation specifically designed for Adam on day six is in no way a contradiction. Show me where it says, “God only created vegetation on day three and created more vegetation on day six” and you might have something there.

Actually, the Bible does specify that man was created before the plants. Let's go to the tape again (bold emphasis added):

Quote:KJV Genesis 2:4-7 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Lets consult a few other translations to be sure I'm understanding this correctly:

Quote:NIV Gen 2:5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground,

ASV Gen 2:5 And no plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for Jehovah God had not caused it to rain upon the earth: and there was not a man to till the ground;

CEV Gen 2:5 no grass or plants were growing anywhere. God had not yet sent any rain, and there was no one to work the land.

ESV Gen 2:5 When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,

Looks like chapter 2 really does say man came before plants.

Quote:Uh oh, someone didn’t do their homework, when I picked up my Bible and read those verses I see nothing about the birds being created out of water in verse 20.

“20And God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[a] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens." -ESV

The KJV gave a different indication but fine, I'll concede that your Bible agrees with your take. (You'd think that God would watch over all the translations to be sure I didn't have to cross-reference 20 different versions to get the right message).

Quote:Again, not doing your homework, when I picked up my Bible and read verse 19 it clearly states that God “had formed” the birds out of the ground. Since it states in Chapter 1 that he did this on Day 5 this verse is not in contradiction to chapter 1 since it is clearly in past tense.


Once again, that's not what the KJV indicates:

Quote:Genesis 2:18-19 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Now, the order of events is, "Yahweh decided A, then makes B then brings them to Adam". If the proper order of events was, as you describe, it would read "Yahweh decided A, then remembered he had made B much earlier, gathered B to bring to Adam". Let's check some other translations:

Quote:CEV Gen 2:18-19: The LORD God said, "It isn't good for the man to live alone. I need to make a suitable partner for him." So the LORD took some soil and made animals and birds.

ASV Gen 2:18-19 And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every beast of the field

NIV Gen 2:18-19: Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.

So some modern translations agree with you while others agree with me. My explanation for the discrepancy is that modern translators, aware of the problem, have fixed it.

Quote:They [man and woman] were created together on day 6, not a contradiction since the word together is relative to the time period being described.

You know that "together" has a specific meaning, right?

Quote:From dictionary.com:
4. at the same time: we left school together

I'm ready for the next deluge of obtuse interpretations, verses wrenched out of context, flimsy rationalizations and spurious ad hoc hypotheses that usually come from these conversations.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics. - by DeistPaladin - September 9, 2011 at 9:28 am
RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics. - by Sam - September 10, 2011 at 7:47 pm
RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics. - by Ryft - September 16, 2011 at 12:42 am
RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics. - by Ryft - September 18, 2011 at 12:19 am
RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics. - by Sam - September 27, 2011 at 9:57 am

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