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Extremists: a question and a talk
#39
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk
Quote:Hi Dr. Badawi. One of the famous quotation that Muslims use when talking about violence and peace is that Islam is a religion of peace and war in Islam is only for self-defense. However, you one day claimed: "Actual armed jihad is permissible under two conditions alone: one is for self-defense, and the other is for fighting against oppression." (cited in Diana Eck, A New Religious America, HarperSanFrancisco, 2001, p. 238).

Although, Dr. Badawi, you are quite accurate in describing the conditions of armed jihad in Islam, what you fail to say is that the definitions of "self-defense" and "fighting against oppression" are much broader than usually understood. Many Orthodox Muslims believe that if a nation's leaders do not acknowledge the rule of Islam, then those rulers are "oppressors" and thus a legitimate target for war (see John Kelsay, Islam and War, Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press, 1993, p. 35). Many Muslims argue that America is a cultural aggressor by exporting its Hollywood values all over the world, and thus any fight against Americans is done in self-defense (see the article by Mark Galli, "Now What? A Christian response to religious terrorism," Christianity Today, Oct 22, 2001). Therefore, there is no end to how a Muslim group can define "self-defense" and "oppression" and thus find an Islamic justification for violence.

Quoted in: https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/...erance.htm

Quote:Another verse says:

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief(fasadan) in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, S. 5:33 Shakir"

The above passage threatens those who aim for mischief with execution, crucifixion, the cutting of their hands and feet, or exile. The question is what exactly does the word mischief imply or convey? For the answer we now turn to several Muslim sources:

   Fasad
   Fasad, literally 'corruption', in Qur'anic terminology, means creating disorder and corruption earth BY FOLLOWING A PATH OTHER THAN GOD’S. Islam maintains that true peace and happiness emanate ONLY THROUGH THE OBSERVANCE OF GOD’S COMMANDS and through making a conscious effort to see that His laws alone are implemented in every sphere of life. Fasad occurs when man violates God's laws and disobeys Him. Fasad may therefore be partial as well as total; partial when one disregards God's law in one aspect of life while acknowledging His sovereignty in other spheres. If a society is based on the denial of God, that society is bound to be a corrupt and exploitative society - hence full of fasad. (Glossary of Islamic Terms; capital emphasis ours)

Ibn Kathir's tafsir on Quran 5:33 says:

   The Punishment of those Who Cause Mischief in the Land
   Allah said next, ...
   <The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land.>

   'Wage war' mentioned here means, OPPOSE AND CONTRADICT, and it includes DISBELIEF, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Volume 3, p. 161; online edition; capital emphasis ours)

In Ibn Kathir's tafsir on Sura 2:11-12 he writes:

   Meaning of Mischief
   In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented, ...

   <And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth," they say: "We are only peacemakers.">

   "They are the hypocrites. As for, ...
   <"Do not make mischief on the earth">, that is DISBELIEF AND ACTS OF DISOBEDIENCE." Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement, ...
   <And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,">, means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is DISOBEYING Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, OR COMMANDS THAT ALLAH BE DISOBEYED, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah)." Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged) Volume 1, Parts 1 and 2 (Surat Al-Fatihah to Verse 252 of Surat Al-Baqarah), abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First Edition: January 2000], pp. 131-132; online edition; capital emphasis ours)

And:

   Types of Mischief that the Hypocrites commit
   Ibn Jarir said, "The hypocrites commit mischief on earth BY DISOBEYING THEIR LORD on it and continuing in the prohibited acts. They also ABANDON WHAT ALLAH MADE OBLIGATORY AND DOUBT HIS RELIGION, even though He does not accept a deed from anyone EXCEPT WITH FAITH IN HIS RELIGION and certainty of its truth. The hypocrites also lie to the believers by saying contrary to the doubt and hesitation their hearts harbor. They give as much aid as they can, against Allah's loyal friends, and support those who deny Allah, His Books and His Messengers. This is how the hypocrites commit mischief on earth, while thinking that they are doing righteous work on earth."
   The statement by Ibn Jarir is true, taking the disbelievers as friends is one of the categories of mischief on the earth... (Ibid., p. 132; online edition; capital emphasis ours)

Clearly then, mischief or fasad entails disbelief and disobedience to Islam, that those who deny that Islam is true, or that Muhammad is a true prophet, and who may call into question Muhammad’s religion, are being mischievous. They are to come under the severe punishment and penalty for refusing to embrace Islam and/or for calling its veracity into question.

The Myth of Islamic Tolerance : Addressing A Common Muslim Polemic [emphasis in the original]
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Messages In This Thread
Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 7, 2018 at 11:44 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by chimp3 - July 7, 2018 at 11:48 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Minimalist - July 7, 2018 at 11:53 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 7, 2018 at 3:40 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 7, 2018 at 7:49 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 7, 2018 at 8:43 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 7, 2018 at 9:58 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 8, 2018 at 5:30 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 9, 2018 at 11:45 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 7, 2018 at 12:47 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 7, 2018 at 2:20 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by chimp3 - July 7, 2018 at 4:38 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 7, 2018 at 7:52 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by chimp3 - July 7, 2018 at 7:59 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Foxaèr - July 7, 2018 at 8:31 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by chimp3 - July 7, 2018 at 8:59 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Joods - July 7, 2018 at 8:26 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 8, 2018 at 9:54 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by brewer - July 7, 2018 at 10:32 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 8, 2018 at 4:50 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by SaStrike - July 8, 2018 at 7:04 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Brian37 - July 8, 2018 at 10:01 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 8, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 8, 2018 at 6:26 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by chimp3 - July 8, 2018 at 7:55 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 9, 2018 at 1:29 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 15, 2018 at 10:56 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 16, 2018 at 2:28 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 16, 2018 at 5:29 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 16, 2018 at 10:25 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 17, 2018 at 11:03 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 10, 2018 at 9:09 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 10, 2018 at 11:16 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 17, 2018 at 11:57 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 17, 2018 at 5:48 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 17, 2018 at 12:56 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 17, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Fake Messiah - July 17, 2018 at 3:47 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 17, 2018 at 4:12 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by yragnitup - July 17, 2018 at 11:22 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by yragnitup - July 18, 2018 at 3:22 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 17, 2018 at 8:37 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 17, 2018 at 9:44 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 18, 2018 at 6:50 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 18, 2018 at 8:40 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Fake Messiah - July 18, 2018 at 7:11 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by WinterHold - July 20, 2018 at 12:37 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 18, 2018 at 7:33 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 18, 2018 at 9:55 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by robvalue - July 19, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Angrboda - July 20, 2018 at 5:07 am
RE: Extremists: a question and a talk - by Fake Messiah - July 28, 2018 at 9:25 am

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