(July 29, 2018 at 5:16 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:(July 29, 2018 at 3:14 pm)emjay Wrote: I didn't know that either (ex-Protestant here if that makes a difference)... didn't know there was supposed to be anything special about Mary. Are you saying she was claimed to be born of a virgin as well as Jesus? Or am I completely misunderstanding your meaning here?
As to the other, have you tried swivelling your head around?
The dogmatic reasoning runs thus:
1. Since Eve tempted Adam and the latter succumbed to the temptation, all human beings are born with the taint [stop giggling] of original sin.
2. Jesus, as the Son of Man and coeval with God the Father, has to necessarily be free of sin.
3. In order for Jesus to be free of sin, Mary had to be free of sin also, as the Vessel of The Saviour.
4. Since God knows all things, he knew Mary was destined to be the mother of Jesus and pre-redeemed her prior to the visit from the Holy Ghost (in other words, God eliminated in her all trace of sin, including original sin).
I didn't spend those 12 horrifying years in Catholic school for nothing, you know.
This is what is known as 'Catholic Logic'. Feel free to laugh until your gums bleed.
I'm afraid that swiveling my head round would get me exorcised, not excommunicated.
Boru
Right, thanks for the info... it's interesting. You really should have put two 'stop gigglings' though... one to stifle the giggling following the first
Anyway, as a protestant I don't think there was any emphasis on the 'taint' in (1)... or at least not in the same way... in other words you'd be a blank slate when you were born, cursed yes, but cursed in the ways listed in Genesis... cursed basically to be human and suffer as humans suffer (the pain of childbirth and a hard rather than easy life etc)... but only thereafter be susceptible to sin... that sin was something you did, not were. So from that, I'd never get to (3) because as I saw it, Jesus could be free of sin if he simply did not sin with his acts in the course of his life, and thus no need for any pre-emptive sin-scrubbing acts, on him or anyone else. So, just to be clear, was the pre-redeeming you're talking about in (4) a virgin birth of her? If so, is that described in the Bible? Ie was it just a matter of interpretation of something in the Bible that protestants would overlook or interpret differently, or... if not in the Bible, how does the Catholic church justify this?As for excommunication... what about divorce... that might do it?
I mean, if you're particularly attached to your wife, you could always get married again
