If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?

[vulcanlogician]

Case in point. Notice the main arguments against gay marriage mostly focus on if its harmful. Is it hurting society? Ruining children? Destroying hetero marriage? Causing disease? And where people stand on the issue largely comes down to if they think the answer is yes or no.

Please, name one reason we outlaw murder aside from the harm it causes to individuals, and therefore the societies those individuals live in.

It's hard for me to answer your question because, in my thinking, only those things which are interpersonally destructive are immoral. Something like gay marriage is not immoral because such a thing is not destructive. I don't see exactly where we disagree.

What I might call into question is "...aside from the harm it causes to individuals, and therefore the societies..."

I gave two examples of murder that could be said to not harm societies. I don't see how harming an individual is inherently harmful to society. One could argue that robust and powerful societies (like ancient Rome) housed institutions (such as slavery) which were very harmful to individuals within the society. And yet those societies thrived and prospered. Since it is possible to harm an individual (arguably) for the benefit of the society that encompasses him/her, it does not not seem to logically follow that something that harms individuals therefore harms the societies those individuals live in.

Laws can be based on morals, but they don't have to be.  That you need to license your boat isn't a moral good.  There is nothing immoral or harmful about an unlicensed boat.

Yes. I was going to mention this, but I didn't want to ramble. Many laws are intentioned to create and maintain order in society, but have nothing to do with morality. On the other side of things, there are things (like adultery) which may be considered immoral but are nonetheless permitted by law.

---

---