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Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
#1
Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
The "Atheist Bible Study" thread got me thinking: why are some religious adherents so averse to their scriptures being ridiculed? I think the main reason is that those from religious backgrounds are accustomed to their holy scriptures being held aloft, as something beyond reproach-- ie. taken super seriously. In religious settings, the more "troublesome" verses are often glossed over, instantly apologized for, or explained away. These verses are handled in a "special way." Social mores in these circles dictate that no one ask: "What if this is just a bunch of bronze age bullshit?" In our "Atheist Bible Study" thread, it is pretty obvious that no verse will be afforded such special protection. And I think some people are bothered (maybe even scared) by that.

I'll be the first to step out of the thread if it becomes some kind of "free-for-all" that refuses to see anything good or meaningful in the scriptures. That would indicate that the discussion is neither fair nor relevant. But (by the same token) "What if this is just a bunch of bronze age bullshit?" also seems like a fair and relevant question, one that ought to appear perennially in the discussion if we are to consider ourselves any kind of self-respecting atheists/skeptics.

But why are so many so quick to treat the scriptures so roughly? One of the main reasons is: you guys take them so seriously. I mentioned the Greek myth of Arachne in one of my posts there. I love mythology of all kinds, especially Greek myths. But if a third of the people around me insisted that I take the myth literally, that is, I treat it seriously as the reason why spiders exist, I might begin heaping some ridicule upon it.

A third. I know I've shown the chart below before, but I think it says something relevant. 34% of Americans (that's nearly half of all Christians in this country) treat Genesis as a literal history. They want creationism to have "honorable mention" status in our science classrooms. Augustine, Anselm, and Aquinas advanced an interpretive mode that does not typify that of the average modern Christian. These guys were all influenced by the Greeks, too. Remember that Paul dismissed the Greeks, and that's enough for the literalists to pay the Greeks or modern science no mind at all.

[Image: FT_16.02.12_darwinDay_640px.png]

I remember mentioning some Hindu myths to some of my Indian friends I knew in DC. They grew up with these things. And they were more inclined to view the myths as something stupid rather than interesting. Reflecting on this, I conclude that their reaction to being presented with the myths was such because (where they came from) such myths were taken too seriously.

I was watching a documentary about India wherein a troupe of "miracle workers" would travel around to different villages and perform magic tricks (like lying on a bed of nails etc.) and would attract large crowds of spectators. Of course, the troupe would attribute their "magic powers" to God. They were dishonest magicians.

In the wake of this first group, a different kind of troupe followed. This group would similarly put on magic shows for audiences. They called themselves the "God Busters." They had a different style. After performing the same feats that the other group performed, they would explain to the audience exactly how the tricks were done, adding that God had nothing to do with any of it. I'm sure these "God Busters" are a great thorn in the side of the charlatans who would prefer that nobody questioned their supernatural claims. But one could also imagine a middle of the road Hindu saying that, while some people make unfounded claims related to the Hindu religion, this does not discredit the religion entirely.

I can see how some theists on the forums resemble those middle of the road Hindus. I think it's important to understand as we continue the Bible study thread, that some "God busting" is to be expected. To ignore the need for such a thing would be to ignore the fact that (at least) half of Christians are making exaggerated claims which make such "God busting" warranted. And, like it or not, these guys still push to fuck with our science classrooms and elect like-minded politicians whenever they can...

Should we spend some time considering allegory as we make our way through the text? Sure. But don't get all huffy if we do a little "God busting" too. Your problem ought not be with us. Your problem ought to be with the literalists who make such commentary pertinent.
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#2
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
It happens to be the gist and most of the verses in the Bible form something beyond human capability. The proof is in the pudding, you guys recite and read it, but show you don't understand.

There is a sorcery regarding them, and the Quran as well. Otherwise, the holy kings they call to and are the means of God channeling his light, is clear.

There is no goodness in people paying lip service to morality but when the perfect leader and word of God is brought out, you do your best to shut it off and make a mockery of God's proofs and treat what are proofs and signs as if stories of the past, as if God has not proven everything there is to prove through his iterating through his way.

And I find funny how Atheists argue by argument of evil and that it doesn't make sense we had millions of years of diseases and what not, but when God explains it was a perfect world, and things been getting gradually worse due to people taking the position of the name of God, you don't think, you just continue to obey people claiming this position and claiming to represent what is to be valued most by humans and the moral path and guidance.

They been deceiving humans for too long, time to wake up. The Bible has bad parts, but most of it, is proofs. It proves a lot through what it says, but you don't reflect. And you can easily destroy the falsehood of it by relying on the clear proofs it has.
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#3
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
I have no problem saying that it is all iron age bullshit,  even the parts that are meaningful are now irrelevant. We know so much more now, especially when it comes to morality. The "Holy" books are no longer necessary to the advancement of human culture.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#4
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
The have the only cure and solution for peace and justice.
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#5
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
(October 21, 2018 at 6:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The have the only cure and solution for peace and justice.

We have advanced beyond them. The only rational arguments for peace and justice are secular arguments.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#6
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
(October 21, 2018 at 6:04 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(October 21, 2018 at 6:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The have the only cure and solution for peace and justice.

We have advanced beyond them. The only rational arguments for peace and justice are secular arguments.

You have crossed many boundaries they have put in place. We see justice and secular excuses to what is happening in Yemen.

As we come to a global community, the world, more then ever, will need to turn to God's anointed king, and find out who he is based on proofs.

Lest we give power to the deceivers and manipulators and liars, and the killers of the Prophets of old, and the enemies of the Final Prophet and his successors.
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#7
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
(October 21, 2018 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 21, 2018 at 6:04 pm)chimp3 Wrote: We have advanced beyond them. The only rational arguments for peace and justice are secular arguments.

You have crossed many boundaries they have put in place. We see justice and secular excuses to what is happening in Yemen.

As we come to a global community, the world, more then ever, will need to turn to God's anointed king, and find out who he is based on proofs.

Lest we give power to the deceivers and manipulators and liars, and the killers of the Prophets of old, and the enemies of the Final Prophet and his successors.

Fuck your prophets of old! The only tyrants that matter are living tyrants.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#8
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
(October 21, 2018 at 6:10 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(October 21, 2018 at 6:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You have crossed many boundaries they have put in place. We see justice and secular excuses to what is happening in Yemen.

As we come to a global community, the world, more then ever, will need to turn to God's anointed king, and find out who he is based on proofs.

Lest we give power to the deceivers and manipulators and liars, and the killers of the Prophets of old, and the enemies of the Final Prophet and his successors.

Fuck your prophets of old! The only tyrants that matter are living tyrants.

The battle of good and evil rests on supporting the one who channels morality and fabrics of love to rest of humanity in the inward kingdom and recognizing him and his name in the outward world or resisting the words of light brought to life and rebelling against these anointed kings true authority.

As for the neutrals, they are neutral so long as they don't find a means to hate the truth nor have the knowledge been given to them of the proofs to support it.  Neutrals maybe forgiven.


What you don't realize is the heart of the good and evil battle - lies in the Shiite - Sunni dispute. As I proven many times, Quran is clear in guidance in that regard, but something more sinister blinds people to the truth therein.

The same is true of Mohammad and his family in the Bible.  I read it and easily saw it.  And I can easily defend the case he is there.
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#9
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
(October 21, 2018 at 6:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 21, 2018 at 6:10 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Fuck your prophets of old! The only tyrants that matter are living tyrants.

The battle of good and evil rests on supporting the one who channels morality and fabrics of love to rest of humanity in the inward kingdom and recognizing him and his name in the outward world or resisting the words of light brought to life and rebelling against these anointed kings true authority.

As for the neutrals, they are neutral so long as they don't find a means to hate the truth nor have the knowledge been given to them of the proofs to support it.  Neutrals maybe forgiven.


What you don't realize is the heart of the good and evil battle - lies in the Shiite - Sunni dispute. As I proven many times, Quran is clear in guidance in that regard, but something more sinister blinds people to the truth therein.

The same is true of Mohammad and his family in the Bible.  I read it and easily saw it.  And I can easily defend the case he is there.

Name one contribution that fucking Muhammed has made to advance peace and justice recently.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#10
RE: Why We don't take your Holy Scriptures Seriously
(October 21, 2018 at 6:17 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(October 21, 2018 at 6:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The battle of good and evil rests on supporting the one who channels morality and fabrics of love to rest of humanity in the inward kingdom and recognizing him and his name in the outward world or resisting the words of light brought to life and rebelling against these anointed kings true authority.

As for the neutrals, they are neutral so long as they don't find a means to hate the truth nor have the knowledge been given to them of the proofs to support it.  Neutrals maybe forgiven.


What you don't realize is the heart of the good and evil battle - lies in the Shiite - Sunni dispute. As I proven many times, Quran is clear in guidance in that regard, but something more sinister blinds people to the truth therein.

The same is true of Mohammad and his family in the Bible.  I read it and easily saw it.  And I can easily defend the case he is there.

Name one contribution that fucking Muhammed has made to advance peace and justice recently.

His successor's words to be enemy of the oppressor and supporter of the oppressed, is all that keeps, that shadow and his minions, from getting their way.


And Mohammad's words to Salman Al-Farsi after naming the 12 Imams when he stated  "let Iblis and his armies come" and the Quran's promise of God saving believers like he did in the past and will deliver them from oppressors, and Prophet clarifying that by giving good news of the Mahdi from the offspring of Fatima.

That is what keeps the darkness and shadow at bay, and that is what keeps the earth from going to chaos ruled by evil ones, if you would have insight, you would know.

Mohammad and his family - the world will remember them when the chaos and oppression reach a climax that the world will no longer tolerate, they will remember God and his anointed Kings then..... 

And when we remember God and turn to him,  God will deliver the believers as he delivered them in the past from their oppressors.

This is a tale that has been repeated but will now to take a perpetual state and a world universal stage.

I'm honored to be part of the resistance and will not join the dark forces, no matter what.
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