The absolute absurdity of God

[LadyForCamus]

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Look, it’s not lost on me that if we’re having a discussion about the internal consistency of Christian doctrine, I, as a non-Christian, am obligated to play by those rules. I understand that if it’s true that the reason people go to hell is because they have rejected something god has plainly offered them, then god’s actions can be morally justified.

But, I’m asking you to think outside the box of your religion, and consider this scenario objectively for one second. Is it sincerely your position that the most probable reason someone like me is an atheist, is because I have rejected some profound revelation of truth that was waved under my nose? That that explaination is more likely than the notion that I simply don’t find the evidence compelling? Are you willing to consider these options as the critically thinking individual you have demonstrated yourself to be, rather than just regurgitate what the Bible tells you to think?  Because, as I said previously, as an open-minded outsider looking in, ‘the ones who don’t believe just didn’t want to believe’, reeks of an ad hoc explaination; one Christians use to excuse the actions of their god, and dismiss the billions of human souls they believe will suffer eternally, without a nagging conscience keeping them up at night.

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Let's look at your statement "I simply don’t find the evidence compelling". That could mean quite a range of things. 

1. What category of evidence? Historical, personal, the actual NT, discussions with knowledgeable believers.
2. How much evidence? Did you just hear this or that on AF or hear someone say like Dawkins say there was no evidence and decide that is good enough. Did you read a book and some articles by believers to see what it was about. Did you seek out discussions with knowledgeable Christians. Have you talked with people who have had changed lives and asked them their experiences. 
3. Do you actually understand the evidence in proper context? You can't determine if something is evidence if you don't even understand what it may be evidence of. 
4. Did you keep an open mind about the evidence in an honest search for any truth?

I think that 99% of the people on AF have not done 1-4 thoroughly enough to say they have rejected God with full knowledge of what they were rejecting. Before I get jumped on I also want to make the point that IMO more than 90% of Christians don't accept God/live their daily lives as Christians with a full knowledge of these things either. That's why you get plenty of people here that grew up in a "Christian" home and think they know what it is they have rejected. I will bet heavily on the fact that they don't.

You said to me once regarding god belief:

I think reasoning can remove the barriers but not get you over the goal line.

Why should a rational person bother with the effort of becoming a self-made biblical scholar if reasoning from knowledge can only get you to the point where you have to abandon it, and move forward on faith?  I don’t understand this.  You told me that atheism was a rational position.  Why would anyone abandon a position that is rational in favor of one that requires I leave reason behind in order to fully accept it?

I never said "they don't want to believe". As I have pointed out the question is more like: have they searched enough and are they justified in their rejection. There is a lot at stake not to make an effort. This is not like a 50 person cult that is making some claim that you can dismiss without even knowing what the claim is. There is a mountain of information, discussion, experiences, and people available for an evaluation.

There is a Bible, a religion, and a lot of people who believe in it.  These are facts.  Beyond that?  Anything externally corroborating any of the claims made by the people of this particular religion, and their book?  We ask Christians for this information daily here.

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Further, such explanation is a blanket straw-man that you and your book commit every single time you talk to a fellow human on the subject, to the degree that it can’t be a genuine discussion. If I tell you that I, Michelle, have wanted to believe in god for a long time; that when my belief was crumbling years ago, I prayed for any sign; any dangling rope to hold on to; and your response to me is, ‘according to my book you just didn’t want it bad enough’, then you’re not actually talking to me. You’re shutting down dialogue with a fallacy. Imagine how quickly you’d take me down, Steve, if I said, “you don’t really believe in god. You’re just holding on to a comforting fantasy, and deep down you know it isn’t true.”  I get that you are starting at, “my book is true”, but then why bother engaging with people at all if you aren’t going to accept the reasons they give you?  In that case, what you’re doing boils down to preaching.

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I would never suggest "you didn't want it bad enough". I don't think I have ever come anywhere near something like that in any of my posts ever.

I appreciate that.

I don't know why God did not send a sign you recognized. I believe it is still coming if you are still seeking it. Perhaps he knows what it will take for your to believe and that person/event has not been orchestrated yet.

Again, what is the purpose of reason and evidence if what we actually need is a beacon light straight from the source?  If get a message directly from god, there should be no question about it, regardless of how dim I am on the subjects of the Bible and Christian doctrine, no?  Further, why does god have such a hard time penetrating us with his message?  If he really wanted to save every soul, why not send one, large, indisputable revelation to every human on the planet, right now?

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Who knew, before doing any of that, how many billions of his creatures would not get the message, and what he would have to do to them after the fact. And he did it anyway. For himself. To serve his personal desires. But, since all those souls like mine don’t really want god’s gift in the first place, I guess that makes it okay.  

 
Dictionary definiton time:


I don’t see ‘fullest possible existence’, ‘relationships’, ‘fruits of the spirit’, ‘loving art’, or ‘mercy’ anywhere.


He could have done nothing at all.  Also, why does god deserve worship?  I thought it wasn’t about worship?  You said: 


Does god want be worshipped?  Does he ask to be?

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You are getting an incomplete picture of my original answer: the chief purpose of man: to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever (Westminster Shorter Catechism). 

https://www.gotquestions.org/glorify-God...thing.html:

Question: "How can I glorify God in everything I do?"

Answer: The concept of “glorifying” God is that of honoring God with one’s life. First Corinthians 10:31 teaches believers to honor the Lord in all they do: “So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.” The context of this verse includes a discussion of the freedom believers have in Christ. We are free to make personal choices in life, but we are not to do anything that causes another person to “stumble” or sin in his own walk with God. We are to seek the good of others (1 Corinthians 10:32–33).
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To glorify God requires full commitment to Him. In Colossians 3:23 we read, “Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord.”
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Glorifying God in everything means we honor Him in our thoughts and actions. Our thoughts are to be set on the things of God (Psalm 1) and the Word of God (Psalm 119:11). When we focus on God’s Word, we know what is right and can follow through with doing what is right.
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Another way we glorify God in everything we do is in the proper treatment of our bodies. In speaking of sexual immorality, 1 Corinthians 6:19–20 teaches, “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.”

To glorify God in everything, we must exercise faith (Hebrews 11:6), love without hypocrisy (Romans 12:9), deny ourselves (Luke 9:23), be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18), and offer ourselves as “living sacrifices” to God (Romans 12:1). Every area of life is important to evaluate and live to its fullest for the glory and honor of God. We should strive for every thought and deed to bring joy to our Father in heaven.

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I am going to address the above as you’ve got me thinking about some things, but I’d like maximum participation from theists, so I’m going to start a new thread.  I hope that’s is alright with you.

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Also, just wanted to say thanks to Steve and Jorm. I thoroughly enjoyed that exchange. My brain is sweating! 👍