the god created science argument

[DeistPaladin]

I hear about miraculous healings all the time, from all over the world.

"Hearing about" isn't evidence that it actually happens. If faith gives you healing powers, why not submit these powers to medical peer review or perform them under circumstances where credible witnesses can confirm they really happened.

I said some time ago that healing Stephen Hawking would convince me of the existence of your god (or the Muslim god, depending on who pulls it off). We could determine the nature of his prior condition and also his recovery.

As far as powerful signs go, Jesus said there wouldn't be any more until the end was near. I mentioned this in my last post.

Chapter and verse? I'm not saying he didn't but I must have missed that.

God is a spirit, and God dwells in Heaven, not on Earth. That is rather elementry knowledge for someone who claims to have read the bible.

I've provided you with chapter and verse that describes an anthropomorphic deity. It wasn't until the NT that the Christians even thought of making him a spiritual being.

Faith doesn't suppress reason.

Well, what is the definition of faith, then? Let's go to your Bible once again:

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (NRSV 3rd Ed)

Assuring yourself of things you hope for and having conviction of things not proven. This is a process of silencing critical thinking and doubt. Doubt is part of the process by which we can learn. Claiming knowledge we don't have is counter productive to learning.

This is why as Confucius said "To know that which we do not know is true knowledge" or as Data from Star Trek said, "The beginning of all wisdom is the phrase, 'I don't know'."

You have faith in your deistic God yet you don't see that as unreasonable.

I have an instinct when I look at the natural universe and the progress of human reason that there is some mysterious cause behind it, "God" is as good a word as any. It is not a conviction grounded in reason, I admit, and so I maintain a strong distinction in my own mind between what I know and what I believe.

When I speak of "faith" and what I am against, it's accepting something as unquestioningly true simply on someone else's say-so. Why else do you believe the Bible is God's Word?

Much of our knowledge is predicated on some kind of faith, be it on an authority, on a process, or in reason itself.

Scientific knowledge is based on peer-review and repeatable tests. While it is true I accept what scientists tell us about the age of the universe or the evolution of our species, I need not do so on faith alone. I can conduct research or even pursue a degree in one of their fields to confirm what they have discovered. This is knowledge that is recorded, tested and available to anyone who has the time and inclination.

Now, you're saying that God abandoned us to think for ourselves, and try to figure out the Universe. So, hes just a voyeer it seems. Is he just watching us like we're in a fishbowl? Don't you think that is kind of grotesque?

I'm not the one who said "abandoned". This is a straw man that Christians have come up with in a definition of deism that is not based on any deist philosopher that I know of.

I see it as a matter of scale. If we suppose the existence of a being that created hundreds of millions of galaxies (of which we are a pale blue dot) some 13.5 billion years ago (of which we've been around for a few hundred thousand at most), than it logically follows that this being should be expected to have no more awareness of us than a scientist is of individual bacteria cells within a cultivated colony living in a petri dish. To suppose that we should be able to pray to such a being, that it would have a personal relationship with us or have any desire for our worship seems kind of silly when you take it all in.

This point is underscored by what I imagine as a Far-Side-esqe cartoon, one bacteria cell saying to another, "Let me tell you of my personal relationship with the Great Labcoat in The Sky."

Why doesn't he feel any moral responsibility for what happens on Earth?

Why should we expect anything different, for reasons I've outlined above?

I've said before that Nature's God is a hard ass and It ain't gonna carry you on any beach. In stressful times when I've needed to reassure myself, I don't pray for an invisible hand to make it all better. I tell myself I have already been given all that I need. The rest is up to us.