Are there any Christian proselytizers left in this subforum?

[Bucky Ball]

There used to be a (somewhat famous) Presbyterian minister out here, (California) who was *the* best "sermon-giver / speaker / preacher" ... ever.
Seriously. He was as far from a fundamentalist as one could get. His sermons were literary masterpieces, (and he knew it).
People would go listen, not necessarily for the content, or the service, but just to hear his amazing "style", and always "interesting" point.
He never "shoved" anything down their throats. Once you've been exposed to that level of quality "talk" or "lecture" .... nothing ever will measure up.
Too bad, virtually 99.9 % of preaching is crap "oratory".

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Oh look. It's still here.
Actually we know more about your cult than you do.
One cannot actually be a "Bible Based Christian" ... as the concept of "salvation" has *nothing* to do with the Bible.
The role of a messiah was *never* to save anyone from sin.
Paulianity (what Christianity really is) invented *salvation* when the end-times did not happen, as they all expected it would.
When the young man in Matthew asked Jesus what he had to do to get to heaven, did he say "Just wait, I'ma gonna be saving you ?"
No. He said "keep the commandments". No savior required.

OMG he figured it all out!! what's more it all makes sense!!!


Sorry douche, seems like the only thing you know is what others before you have already said, and failed to convince people of.

One cannot actually be a "Bible Based Christian" ... as the concept of "salvation" has *nothing* to do with the Bible.

actually it does. Starts off in the Old Testament in the book of isaha which is a book of prophesy that mentions the plan of salvation christ and how it is to be carried out. Then it is peppered through the Gospels Jesus mentions it 1/2 dozen times and it is mentioned about 30 more times throughout the NT...

 Ready to fail even harder? here we go.

The role of a messiah was *never* to save anyone from sin.

dumbest thing any of you has ever said... the word literally translates "SAVIOR"
Dictionary



mes·si·ah
məˈsīə/
noun

1. 1.
   the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible.
   
   
   
2. 2.
   a leader or savior of a particular group or cause.
   "he was regarded as a messiah by liberal and conservatives alike"
   
   

Paulianity (what Christianity really is) invented *salvation* when the end-times did not happen, as they all expected it would.

let's see what Jesus himself has to say...
john 11: 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again. This will happen when people are raised from the dead on the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even if they die. 26 And whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied. “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God. I believe that you are the one who is supposed to come into the world.”

and of course john 3 which is a big fat nail in your statement's coffin:
There was a Pharisee named Nicodemus. He was one of the Jewish rulers. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. We know that God is with you. If he weren’t, you couldn’t do the signs you are doing.”

3 Jesus replied, “What I’m about to tell you is true. No one can see God’s kingdom unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “They can’t go back inside their mother! They can’t be born a second time!”

5 Jesus answered, “What I’m about to tell you is true. No one can enter God’s kingdom unless they are born with water and the Holy Spirit. 6 People give birth to people. But the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised when I say, ‘You must all be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wants to. You hear the sound it makes. But you can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going. It is the same with everyone who is born with the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus. “Don’t you understand these things? 11 What I’m about to tell you is true. We speak about what we know. We are witnesses about what we have seen. But still you people do not accept what we say. 12 I have spoken to you about earthly things, and you do not believe. So how will you believe if I speak about heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven. He is the Son of Man. 14 Moses lifted up the snake in the desert. In the same way, the Son of Man must also be lifted up. 15 Then everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son. Anyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to judge the world. He sent his Son to save the world through him. 18 Anyone who believes in him is not judged. But anyone who does not believe is judged already. They have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 Here is the judgment. Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light. They loved darkness because what they did was evil. 20 Everyone who does evil deeds hates the light. They will not come into the light. They are afraid that what they do will be seen. 21 But anyone who lives by the truth comes into the light. They live by the truth with God’s help. They come into the light so that it will be easy to see their good deeds.

Everything we teach about salvation come from here... How then could paul have created it... Maybe Paul simply taught what Jesus taught and expounded on the grey areas the people in his churches were seeking out.

When the young man in Matthew asked Jesus what he had to do to get to heaven, did he say "Just wait, I'ma gonna be saving you ?"
No. He said "keep the commandments". No savior required.

He did not asked to goto heaven, he asked for eternal life. Jesus had no other recourse to tell him to live by the law, as the sacrifice of final atonement had not been made. while Christ was alive everyone was still under the old covenant, even after he rose it was several days before Christ made his new covenant. Until the new covenant was in place the only way to eternal life was through the law. which does not happen till act chapter 2.

What.. that's all you got?

Those were pretty big sunday elementary school level fails.. maybe it's good you only put out one or two fails at a time, so you can process the truth and not keep making the same sunday school mistakes over and over again!

Isn't that cute. He needs to go to a dictionary to try to give his 1st Grade definition of a messiah. In fact the messiah was supposed to re-establish the kingdom of Israel.
Even the apostles thought so : "Wilt Thou O Lord, at this time re-establish the KINGDOM to Israel" (Acts 1:6) Then he uses the time-tested preaching methodology known as "insult your potential convert". It's SO very successful.

Prophesy was never "fortune telling", and your inappropriate use of it as "omen reading' was forbidden. As all can see, you actually addressed NONE of my actual *points*. I see you're just as incompetent as you always were. Typical ignorant Fundamentalist view of "Prophesy as fortune-telling". The role of a prophet was never to tell the future. You should consider getting an education (ie Bible 101).

"The concepts of moshiach, messianism, and of a Messianic Age originated in Judaism,[1][2] and in the Hebrew Bible; a moshiach (messiah) is a king or High Priest traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil.[3] Messiahs were not exclusively Jewish: the Book of Isaiah refers to Cyrus the Great, king of the Achaemenid Empire, as a messiah[4] for his decree to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple.

Ha mashiach (המשיח, "the Messiah", "the anointed one"),[5] often referred to as melekh mashiach (מלך המשיח "King Messiah"),[6] is to be a human leader, physically descended from the paternal Davidic line through King David and King Solomon. He is thought to accomplish predetermined things in only one future arrival, including the unification of the tribes of Israel,[7] the gathering of all Jews to Eretz Israel, the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, the ushering in of a Messianic Age[8] of global universal peace, and the annunciation of the world to come[1][2] The specific expression, "HaMashiach" (המשיח, lit. "the Messiah"), does not occur in the Tanakh."

It actually means "the anointed one" (the king of Israel). The KINGDOM has never been re-established. None of the other stuff happened either. here is NOT ONE shred of evidence for your deity. What we observe is what one expects to see, if there were no gods, despite your (delusional) conversations with yourself in your car.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

It NEVER meant "saving from sin". Ever. Christians made it up, and CHANGED the meaning to suit their new cult. A real god could have just said "I forgive you" instead of demanding the contorted nonsense of requiring "atonement". I god that requires that (obviously) is not the master/creator of reality, but subject to it.


Until LATE in the 1st Century, "Christians" were still Jews in Israel, (thus the need for the Expulsion Curses from the High Priest). http://lawrenceschiffman.com/the-benedic...the-minim/  In his Christmas sermon, 400 CE, (St.) John Chrysostom told HIS congregation to stop going to synagogue. The fake history and made up concepts Christians present as legitimate are FAR from accurate .. including CHANGING what the role of a messiah was to be.

As far as your fake "prophesy" goes, most student learn in Bible 101, that what they thought was "prophesy" really is not.

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The ancient role of a prophet in Hebrew culture was to interpret the words or will of their god to the people OF THEIR OWN DAY. NOT to predict the future. (That's Hollywood's idea of the role of a prophet). 
So you often hear fundies talking about "prophesy", and how various prophesies were a 'foretelling", or prediction of the future, and indeed they count them up as "proof" that Jebus or whatever HAS to be true, as the "prophecy" came true. 
In fact Leviticus forbade fortune telling and divination, so we know it was an abomination to even think in these terms for many/most centuries in Hebrew culture. However, with the rise of Apocalypticism, around the turn of the millennium, this changed somewhat, and is evidenced in many Christian writings, including the gospels, as they adopted the notions absent in ancient Israel, but coming into popular view with the Essenes. In terms of Hebrew culture, and the "telling of or prediction of" the future, was unknown, and forbidden, and not at ALL a view of the major prophets themselves. However in the the new view, certain "hidden meanings" or "pesherim" began to be looked for, in the practice of Midrash. The name for this is called "pesher", (or seeking a "hidden meaning"), which was not even known to the original speaker/writer, but only "revealed" later
to certain believers. Originally, the (plural) "pesherim" were only fully revealed to the Son of Righteousness, (the leader of the Essenes), and the idea was first found and fully understood after scholars read the Dead Sea scrolls, and was a sub category of "Midrash", (or study of the texts). 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...15650.html
Thus we see that "prophesy" as fortune telling as began to be practiced in Judaism around the First Century, (and picked up by Christians and the gospel writers), really was a very late invention and never a classical part of Hebrew scripture, or understanding, either interpretation, or intention, and certainly was not the function of the ancient office of "prophet", in Hebrew culture, who was to be a "mouthpiece" to the people of their own day, and not Madame Zelda with her crystal ball.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/r...html#proof