RE: Are there any Christian proselytizers left in this subforum?
October 7, 2018 at 9:25 pm
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2018 at 9:37 pm by vulcanlogician.)
(October 3, 2018 at 6:46 am)Khemikal Wrote: You value theism, I don't. That mlk or ghandi (or anyone else) drew from their personally held faith is irrelevant to me and frankly, to the discussion, unless there could be no acheiving those things in the absence of the same faith. Those are the achievements of men who happen to have had a faith, and most do. Not the achievements of a faith through men.
Okay. So I agree with your first statement: The things achieved by MLK and Gandhi could very well have been achieved by an individual who had no religion or faith at all. But what I would contest is the bolded portion. It could be argued that both men were "called to action" (so to speak) by a moral conviction that had its root in their personal religiosity. If you have time to spare, I recommend some of King's early sermons (which can be found on YouTube) or Gandhi's religious essays such as "The Message of the Gita."
Of course there is a list of a thousands of theist assholes for every one exemplar I can produce. I agree. Some goes for atheists, btw. But that's not the point I'm making. I DO NOT think that theism (in itself) is good. I think that (generally) theism is a gross mischaracterization of reality. But I do argue that theism is an important part of some people's complete moral breakfast, and that (in some cases, such as Gandhi and MLK) a theistic outlook shows people some grain of truth that secular materialism fails to show most atheists. And to me, THE TRUTH is the highest good. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that said "truth" is unavailable to the secular materialist... I'm simply saying that theism presents it clearly and materialism doesn't.
I am an atheist because (for the most part) theism is a worldview that encourages people to depart from reality and "the truth." But even you can't deny that some devout theists are seekers of the truth as much as (if not more than) the average atheist. And I would argue that some people's theism (as few as they may be) gets them closer to reality than does the atheism of the typical atheist.
