(October 15, 2018 at 11:56 pm)wyzas Wrote:(October 15, 2018 at 11:44 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: That would make killing relative, not to be confused with subjective. The question is relative to what? Is it relative to the subject, or to the specifics of the event. Can throwing children into a wood chipper for the fun of it be moral, depending on the person?
Another example I seen recently was the old question, if a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it, does it make a sound? If something is objective, it is true regardless of opinions or knowledge of it. It exists and is true regardless if everyone agrees, or even if no one believes.
Are the children dead?
Is the person throwing the children psychotic? If they find enjoyment then they have no moral objection to it.
Do the children have a communicable disease with 100% mortality and threaten the rest of the group? I might get enjoyment from saving my community while not enjoying the actual act.
Tree, sound, detection............. again with the science? Um, does it make a ground vibration? Mixed metaphor again.
(October 15, 2018 at 11:52 pm)mfigurski80 Wrote: Interesting ad hominem setup there.
Also, you self-contradict in the span of 3 really short paragraphs:
"what religion a scientists is. Does not matter as long as the science is correct" ... "I'm not surprised that you continue the theist dance/dodge."
In the second phrase, you are clearly dismissing my explanations (which, notice, do not depend on any theistic precepts) based on your perception of my religion. In the first phrase, you claim that religion is irrelevant as long as the explanations are sound.
"Why are you going back to science with the "subatomic particle" crap. You wanted to discuss moral(s) not science. If there are errors (great or small) in objective morals then they are not objective."
Let me re-reiterate.
Objective (adjective) - "The [objective] object is something that presumably exists independent of the subject's perception of it".
NOTE: An objective object presumably exists independent of one's perception of it!!!!!
Are you denying that you are religious???
I said as long as the "science" explanations are sound. Thanks for twisting my words. Completely what I expected. You need to dump the morals comparison to science.
You have failed to demonstrate that morals are independent of a persons/subjects perception. That objective morals are indeed a fact.
No ad hominem, just an observation that theists seem to collectively demonstrate the same propensity for diversions and dodges.
Edit: I see you added more. Interesting that you say objective morals presumably exist. Good one.
You seem to be trying hard to avoid the subject. More to get around the questions than to think about them.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther