RE: DNA Proves Existence of a Designer
November 11, 2018 at 5:12 pm
(This post was last modified: November 11, 2018 at 5:25 pm by Everena.)
(November 10, 2018 at 9:41 pm)pocaracas Wrote:Every animal you named is conscious and so is the paramecium that does not even have a brain.(November 10, 2018 at 5:43 pm)Everena Wrote: No, science definintely does not know why or how we have consciousness. There are neuroscientists all over the world working on solving the mystery of it right now. And yours is also an argument of ignorance, just so we are on the same page with the type of discussion we are having.
If I may interject....
Would you say that a dog has consciousness?
How about a cat?
A chimp?
A bonobo?
An elephant?
An octopus?
A dolphin?
A whale?
A mouse?
A house fly?
What is consciousness?
How does it apply to humans, but not to most (or all) other animals?
Those neurologists look at all these and more animals and, within the limits of our ability to offer their thinking, attribute a spectrum of complexity of thought, of awareness of self and the world around... a spectrum of consciousness.
But you seem to imply that consciousness is an "all or nothing" deal. Either you have human-like consciousness, or you have nothing. Am I right?
If this were so, then I agree that we'd need to ask why that is...
But it's not. So there is no why.... And the how becomes a simple matter of complexity of certain structures of the brain.
And how did those structures evolve into what we see today? Here, since were taking about quite long time scales and actual brains of previous species have long decompress, we must speculate, based on the spectrum of brains we do see today and how they fit with brain sizes from what fossils we have from those previous species.
On the one hand, we have educated guesses, getting validated by computer modeling.
On the other, we have the next stage after myth, which was itself the next stage after folklore and tradition: god did it.
If you understand the history of the concept of god and evolution, then you understand that first there were men, already possessing a consciousness, and those men conjured up a rudimentary concept of god to help explain the world around them, the transition from life to death and to help ease the pain over lost loved ones. No god is actually required, but those people end up embracing the concept and believing it to be true.
If there was indeed a god behind consciousness itself, then let it come forward in the timeless fashion which you claim it has. Let all humans (those who feel the need to explain to other humans things about god) be quiet. Let god do the explaining and, if it fails at that task, let it remain the mental construct, the psychological crutch it has always been.
(November 11, 2018 at 2:44 pm)Whateverist Wrote:(November 10, 2018 at 5:16 pm)Everena Wrote: This entire universe and everything in it is evidence of higher intelligence. How and why do we have consciousness? Science doesn't know the answer to that. And science does not even attempt to answer any of the whys of our existence. Like why do we exist at all?
*Fixed that for you with my bolding.
I think she/he is looking for wildly speculative, just-so stories which not only make sense of the world but place ourselves at the very center of the story as God's own darlings. She is right you know, science doesn't even try to pander to our vanities.
I don't believe in comforting stories. I think all religions are man-made but with a very good purpose in mind. Were some of them at least partly inspired by actual prophets of God? I don't know and neither do you.
(November 11, 2018 at 3:30 pm)no one Wrote: Everena, why is this massive form of energy of yours so obsessed with the unfolding of my life, does it have some sort of fetish?
I don't believe in an intervening God. I am more of a deist in that respect. Life presents challenges and we deal with them as they come. I also believe "hell" or "karma" is playing itself out right here, right now, right before our very eyes.
(November 11, 2018 at 4:57 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:(November 11, 2018 at 4:51 pm)Everena Wrote: Space time has always existed. Prove that it hasn't. Why do we exist at all? You don't think that even matters?
Waitaminute. If you think that space-time has always existed, then you have no quarrel with Krauss' hypothesis that the universe came from nothing. All you're proving is that you're a disingenuous and inconsistent twat.
I definitely do not believe any utter nonsense that an entire universe could come about from nothing. There has always been something and we have alway been.
(November 11, 2018 at 5:01 pm)pocaracas Wrote:God is still required, even more so considering it took the most brilliant minds that ever existed doing extremely complicated math to develop these discoveries about our already existing and operating universe.(November 11, 2018 at 4:51 pm)Everena Wrote: Space time has always existed.
There you go...
Now, some reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation
"
In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (or vacuum state fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
This allows the creation of particle-antiparticle pairs of virtual particles. The effects of these particles are measurable, for example, in the effective charge of the electron, different from its "naked" charge.
Quantum fluctuations may have been very important in the origin of the structure of the universe: according to the model of expansive inflation the ones that existed when inflation began were amplified and formed the seed of all current observed structure. Vacuum energy may also be responsible for the current accelerating expansion of the universe (cosmological constant).
[...]
A quantum fluctuation is the temporary appearance of energetic particles out of empty space, as allowed by the uncertainty principle. The uncertainty principle states that for a pair of conjugate variables such as position/momentum or energy/time, it is impossible to have a precisely determined value of each member of the pair at the same time. For example, a particle pair can pop out of the vacuum during a very short time interval.
An extension is applicable to the "uncertainty in time" and "uncertainty in energy" (including the rest mass energy m c 2 {\displaystyle mc^{2}} mc^2). When the mass is very large like a macroscopic object, the uncertainties and thus the quantum effect become very small, and classical physics is applicable.
"
No god required, all very mathematical, so much more logical than the very complex entity you propose.