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First order logic, set theory and God
RE: First order logic, set theory and God
(December 7, 2018 at 4:38 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: There are already 4 (or more) Hypotheses, Theories, Laws, Facts.

Are those in order? Are you implying that a theory becomes a law and that facts are somehow more definite than either?

If so, that's not how scientists would use those terms. Hypotheses are proposed to explain facts and laws and develop into theories when the evidence is strong enough.
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Messages In This Thread
First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - November 26, 2018 at 10:47 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by ignoramus - November 26, 2018 at 10:55 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Minimalist - November 26, 2018 at 10:56 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - November 26, 2018 at 10:58 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Minimalist - November 26, 2018 at 11:03 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - November 26, 2018 at 11:25 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by ignoramus - November 26, 2018 at 11:03 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 4, 2018 at 3:45 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 4, 2018 at 4:57 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 4, 2018 at 7:53 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Minimalist - November 26, 2018 at 11:04 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by brewer - November 26, 2018 at 11:34 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - November 27, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by brewer - November 27, 2018 at 8:57 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 27, 2018 at 9:03 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - November 27, 2018 at 12:46 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Fireball - November 26, 2018 at 11:46 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Minimalist - November 26, 2018 at 11:47 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - November 27, 2018 at 12:24 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by LostLocke - November 27, 2018 at 12:41 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Nay_Sayer - November 27, 2018 at 1:21 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Astreja - November 27, 2018 at 1:58 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 27, 2018 at 4:22 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 27, 2018 at 5:51 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - November 27, 2018 at 8:39 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cod - November 27, 2018 at 8:49 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - November 27, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cod - November 27, 2018 at 5:57 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - November 28, 2018 at 4:52 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cod - November 28, 2018 at 5:52 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by no one - November 27, 2018 at 8:50 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Jackie - November 27, 2018 at 9:19 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - November 27, 2018 at 10:00 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Mister Agenda - November 27, 2018 at 11:33 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 27, 2018 at 11:37 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - November 27, 2018 at 12:05 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Minimalist - November 27, 2018 at 12:06 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by ignoramus - November 27, 2018 at 7:08 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Mr.Obvious - November 27, 2018 at 12:33 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - November 27, 2018 at 12:42 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by YahwehIsTheWay - November 27, 2018 at 1:07 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Reltzik - November 27, 2018 at 2:35 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - November 28, 2018 at 1:03 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - November 28, 2018 at 1:58 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - November 28, 2018 at 8:01 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - November 28, 2018 at 8:27 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - December 1, 2018 at 6:46 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 1, 2018 at 7:03 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - December 2, 2018 at 7:13 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 2, 2018 at 7:30 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Reltzik - November 28, 2018 at 4:21 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 28, 2018 at 5:50 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - November 28, 2018 at 6:22 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 28, 2018 at 6:46 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - November 28, 2018 at 7:13 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - November 28, 2018 at 7:35 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - November 28, 2018 at 8:39 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - November 30, 2018 at 2:19 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by I_am_not_mafia - November 30, 2018 at 9:10 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - November 30, 2018 at 9:30 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 2:31 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 3:10 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 2, 2018 at 4:42 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 6:52 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 7:00 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 2, 2018 at 7:39 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - December 3, 2018 at 3:16 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 3, 2018 at 3:38 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by brewer - December 3, 2018 at 6:49 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 2, 2018 at 3:57 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by LastPoet - November 27, 2018 at 3:26 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - November 27, 2018 at 11:52 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by ignoramus - November 28, 2018 at 12:44 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - November 29, 2018 at 9:06 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - November 30, 2018 at 7:59 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 4:21 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 2, 2018 at 4:27 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 4:51 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 2, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by brewer - November 30, 2018 at 8:21 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Paleophyte - December 1, 2018 at 11:05 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 2, 2018 at 1:55 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Paleophyte - December 2, 2018 at 2:59 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 2, 2018 at 3:39 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Paleophyte - December 2, 2018 at 1:40 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 2, 2018 at 2:01 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 2, 2018 at 3:28 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by LastPoet - December 2, 2018 at 4:23 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 2, 2018 at 4:30 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 2, 2018 at 7:10 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 8:45 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 2, 2018 at 9:10 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 9:25 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 2, 2018 at 9:54 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 2, 2018 at 9:33 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 2, 2018 at 9:35 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 2, 2018 at 9:50 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 2, 2018 at 10:27 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 2, 2018 at 10:45 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by tackattack - December 2, 2018 at 9:57 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 2, 2018 at 9:59 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 2, 2018 at 11:12 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 3, 2018 at 7:22 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 4, 2018 at 12:53 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 4, 2018 at 1:12 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 4, 2018 at 9:29 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 4, 2018 at 10:49 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Fake Messiah - December 4, 2018 at 2:33 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 4, 2018 at 3:55 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Fake Messiah - December 4, 2018 at 8:09 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 4, 2018 at 8:29 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Fake Messiah - December 4, 2018 at 9:10 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 4, 2018 at 7:14 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 4, 2018 at 11:57 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 4, 2018 at 2:32 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 4, 2018 at 5:37 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by downbeatplumb - December 4, 2018 at 3:43 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 4, 2018 at 4:07 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 4, 2018 at 9:34 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 4, 2018 at 9:42 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 4, 2018 at 5:14 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 4, 2018 at 5:42 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 4, 2018 at 5:57 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 4, 2018 at 10:41 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 4, 2018 at 10:58 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 4, 2018 at 11:26 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 5, 2018 at 1:21 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 5, 2018 at 2:00 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 5, 2018 at 2:35 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 7, 2018 at 6:33 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 7, 2018 at 8:14 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 8:17 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 7, 2018 at 9:36 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 9:49 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 7, 2018 at 9:54 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 10:10 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 7, 2018 at 11:30 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 11:55 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 8, 2018 at 5:55 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 6:19 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 8, 2018 at 10:17 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 8, 2018 at 10:28 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 10:47 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 8, 2018 at 11:19 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Bucky Ball - December 8, 2018 at 10:41 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 5, 2018 at 6:57 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 5, 2018 at 7:26 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 5, 2018 at 8:58 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 5, 2018 at 7:25 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 5, 2018 at 7:54 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 5, 2018 at 8:11 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 5, 2018 at 9:04 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 5, 2018 at 10:06 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 3:10 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 4:19 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 4:33 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 4:36 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 4:49 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 5:01 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 6, 2018 at 7:54 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 12:58 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 5, 2018 at 8:37 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 5, 2018 at 10:53 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by ignoramus - December 5, 2018 at 8:57 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 5, 2018 at 8:36 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by dr0n3 - December 6, 2018 at 11:12 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 7, 2018 at 8:11 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 7, 2018 at 8:55 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 7, 2018 at 10:22 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 5, 2018 at 11:14 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 6, 2018 at 12:22 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 6, 2018 at 1:23 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 6, 2018 at 3:55 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 3:59 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 6, 2018 at 4:23 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 6, 2018 at 10:04 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - December 6, 2018 at 5:28 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 6, 2018 at 6:03 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Pat Mustard - December 7, 2018 at 4:10 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 4:38 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by unfogged - December 7, 2018 at 5:30 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 6:08 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 4:50 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 6:08 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 6:22 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 6:32 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 10:04 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 6:33 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 6:46 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 7:26 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 6:50 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 7:22 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 8:07 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 9:24 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 6:25 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 6:33 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 6:52 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 7:08 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 7:10 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 6, 2018 at 7:13 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Belacqua - December 6, 2018 at 7:19 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by DeistPaladin - December 7, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 7, 2018 at 3:51 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 7:19 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Grandizer - December 6, 2018 at 7:27 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 10:07 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Rahn127 - December 6, 2018 at 10:17 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 6, 2018 at 10:54 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 6, 2018 at 12:34 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by brewer - December 7, 2018 at 6:15 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 11:30 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 12:04 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 12:16 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 12:21 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by LastPoet - December 8, 2018 at 1:21 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 12:34 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 12:37 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 1:21 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 1:26 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 1:48 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 1:56 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 3:03 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 7:28 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 7:49 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 7:53 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 8:39 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 8, 2018 at 9:00 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 9:21 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 8, 2018 at 11:08 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 8, 2018 at 11:25 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 8, 2018 at 11:31 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 9, 2018 at 12:36 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 9, 2018 at 3:34 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 9, 2018 at 4:38 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 9, 2018 at 4:48 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Amarok - December 9, 2018 at 4:56 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 9, 2018 at 9:13 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cepheus Ace - December 9, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 9, 2018 at 12:42 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 9, 2018 at 12:59 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 9, 2018 at 1:36 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 9, 2018 at 10:33 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 10, 2018 at 1:48 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cepheus Ace - December 10, 2018 at 4:11 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 10, 2018 at 7:59 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cepheus Ace - December 10, 2018 at 12:14 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Cepheus Ace - December 10, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 10, 2018 at 2:03 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by downbeatplumb - December 10, 2018 at 2:17 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 10, 2018 at 2:51 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 10, 2018 at 3:23 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 10, 2018 at 3:51 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 11, 2018 at 9:04 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by T0 Th3 M4X - December 11, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by polymath257 - December 10, 2018 at 2:41 pm
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 10, 2018 at 3:20 am
RE: First order logic, set theory and God - by Angrboda - December 10, 2018 at 8:15 am

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