(March 28, 2019 at 11:01 pm)fredd bear Wrote: My understanding is the sect Jesus founded was that Jesus was indeed and that one needed to be a practising Jew to belong to the small sect he founded.. BUT , this is an educated guess at best, based on what I understand of available evidence ,all of which is well after the fact.
However, considering the current choices, I will continue to hold the view I have until some one comes up with a convincing alternative
Well, then, what do you say I dissuade you from historical Jesus? From what I see in the posts in this topic is that even proponents of the existence of Q think that it didn't have any Jesus' biographical notes, but that it was rather a collection of sayings. Because Jesus' biographical notes don't just seem made up but taken from the Old Testament characters, but then again so do so called Jesus' sayings, like like love your neighbor; last words on the cross; golden rule...
Or even more, like
-when in Matthew 12 Jesus is charged with expelling demons by gaining magical control over their diabolical chief, Jesus says "But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." is like when after sorcerer-priests who reproduced most of Moses' miracles finally had to give up in defeat said "And the magicians said to Pharaoh, `This is the finger of God." in Exodus 8:18-19 Jesus' accusers correspond to Pharaoh, while their "sons" who repeat Jesus' own miracles must correspond to the Egyptian magicians.
- in Matthew 11:5 John the Baptist's emissaries are to report what they see and hear of his miracles and Jesus just happens to quote Isaac 35:5-6 and Isaac 61:1
- or even heavenly voice at Jesus' baptism Mark 1:11 "You are my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." has been cobbled together from three OT passages like Psalm 2:7 where Yahve announces to the newly crowned king of Judah, "You are my son; today I have begotten you." which already was a coronation anthem repeated as part of the enthronement liturgy every time a new king took the throne.
- Jesus' denunciation of towns in Matthew 11:21 unresponsive to gospel preaching is combination of Ezekiel 28 (against Tyre) and Isaac 14 (against Babylon), especially likening Capernaum to Babylon
- when satan tells Jesus "If you are the Son of God, prove it!" Jesus rebuts the proposition by quoting part of Deuteronomy 8:3; or when satan tells him to jump off Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:16, "You shall not put Yahve your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah."; or when satan offers Jesus the world Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 6:13-14 "You shall fear Yahve your God..."
So even if Q was real it seems to have been collection of ancient Egyptian and Hellenistic philosophies with some doomsday prophesies over and above the peaceful antecedents from which they borrowed, perhaps, for dramatic effect.
And perhaps that's why it's missing--because Christians destroyed it because it didn't seem to fit into what ever they wanted Jesus to be, like they did with many other scriptures like Gospel of Thomas, Infancy gospels, Gospel of Marcion etc.


