(August 8, 2019 at 8:02 pm)Belaqua Wrote: Maybe the discussion isn't as focussed as it could be. But Acrobat has been pretty clear in what he's been saying so far, if you go back and look.
He is using the terms "intrinsic" and "extrinsic" to describe two types of meaning in the world. All of these terms are problematic; it might help to be sharper. Overall, though, I think it's easy enough.
In this vocabulary, intrinsic meaning is not invented by individuals. People find it in the world. Acrobat thinks (and I agree) that both Christians and atheists can hold that such intrinsic meaning exists. For different reasons, probably. But Vulcan's view of a Platonic Good is probably an example.
Extrinsic meaning is meaning added to the world by people. Alan has correctly pointed out that this may not be added by individuals, but by groups.
To me, meaning that is created by large groups of people, including species of animals (e.g. us) is real. It won't survive when all the people die, but it is still a real thing.
Ok.
Quote:I'm curious about Acrobat's conception of how intrinsic meaning works. From what he says, it seems to be teleological, and that makes sense to me. Unfortunately some atheists think that teleology can be only divine, but I don't think that's right.
Acrobat seems to be suggesting that it is an indicator of the Divine.
Quote:Anyway, I suspect that he knows some things about this that I don't, and I haven't seen him say anything disqualifying so far. The fact that his view of the source of meaning isn't in line with sola scriptura literalist Bible readings does nothing to argue that he's not a Christian, or imply that he's self-contradictory or something. Please let's allow him to develop this without being pelted with insults.
Didn't say anything about scripture or whatever. I am happy to call him a Christian, but I still expect him to explain what then is concretely theistic about his position, and what his beef is exactly with atheistic and/or secular morality. If there is no beef, then what is the point of all these debates about morality then with atheists specifically?
