How to easily defeat any argument for God

[Acrobat]

[auote]What I’m saying is that you, Acrobat, are the one who is making that determination. I agree with you that the holocaust, and torturing babies is immoral. I don’t agree with you that a god, and/or a ‘divine maximal good’ is necessary for me to make that moral judgement.

You’re the one that makes the determination as to whether something is true, whether you’re a real person, or a brain in vat, whether the earth is round, whether the holocaust happened.

You and I may agree that the holocaust is bad, but you and I don’t agree about the nature of good and bad, even without any notion of God.

You don’t think that the holocaust is bad is an objective truth, but the subjective whims of groups.

If a group of people can agree on a set of goals for that group, then we can say that certain actions are objectively good or bad, based on the pre-set goals for the group. If we decide that physical well-being is generally good for the majority of the group, then we can judge rape as objectively wrong with respect to that goal. That would be a moral fact.

If a group of people thought the holocaust was good, like the Nazis etc.. they would be wrong, just like if a group of people thought the earth is flat would be wrong.

The truth is independent of any groups opinion or subjective goals.

Subjective judgements don’t become objective because a group of people share them with you, they remain subjective.

If something that may be true for you, and your group, but not true for someone else, and their group, it’s not an objective truth.

So should I take that when you say the holocaust is objectively bad, that what you mean is that it’s bad because your group thinks it is. If your group thought it wasn’t, then it wouldn’t be? That you have no grounds to tell others who’s are not a part of your group that something is objectively wrong?

---

I don’t see statements lik holocaust is immoral/bad, or torturing innocent babies just for fun is wrong as subjective, but you do?

In my view if someone claimed the holocaust was good, they would be wrong, just like someone said the earth is flat. But you disagree?

Intuitively, when people really contemplate what makes the holocaust (or any moral act, for that matter) wrong, they often take into account the nature of the act itself, not what deity out there dictates or determines or substantiates it. The former is what lends moral credibility. "God says so" is just a stock statement many theists just "autobotically" say when they can't be arsed to contemplate what is it that really makes it so.

I didn’t think the holocaust is wrong because a god said so, I also don’t believe some of the suggestions by atheists that it’s wrong because my society or group says so, like Lady suggested, or even because I said so

It’s wrong regardless of whatever anyone says, just like the earth is flat is wrong regardless of whatever anyone says.