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How to easily defeat any argument for God
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God
(August 26, 2019 at 6:14 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Watches are designed to tell time. They don't ought to do anything. There's no ought (in the strong moral sense) with watches.

Watches are designed with an intrinsic purpose (telos) to tell time. Human beings similarly have an intrinsic purpose to be Good. If my watch wasn’t telling time, it’s not serving the purpose in which it’s supposed to served, in same way human being not doing good, doing bad are not serving the purpose in which they are suppose to serve. In fact we use parallel type of language here, immoral human appears broken, we use expressions as inhumane, absence of humanity, etc.

When most of us address immorality, when I tell my daughter she did something wrong, it’s with such implications in mind. That when she does something wrong, that she ought to have done what was right, ought to have done what was good, not as some subjective goal assigned to her by herself, me, or society, but one she’s endowed with, posses regardless of her subjective opinions or preferences, one she can no more deny, than a conscious watch can deny its purpose to tell time.

Quote:I'm willing to bet you implicitly follow a goal that is judged by you as reasonable that drives you to believe you ought not do X.

I don’t so much as follow a goal, but rather recognize one, one that I recognize as one not of my own creation, yours, or societies. In fact I often don’t follow it, give in to immorality, and find the idea of being good to be a struggle, and hard work, rather than something that comes naturally or something easy. But I can’t deny that the goal/purpose is a matter of some fundamental truth, rather than some subjective preference, as you implied. To actually view it as subjective, would require that I lie to myself, deny the earth is round.

This teleological view, isn’t a position I reasoned my way into, it’s the default assumption, the prevalent view of humanity, of a toddler, or a child, as teleology so entwined into our perceptions of reality, that it’s very difficult to be rid of.

If a toddler could articulate his moral perception, this is what it would look like.

Quote:You don't believe you ought not do X simply because X is bad. You ought not do X because X is bad and you don't want to do bad.

I believe I ought to do good, and as a result of this not do bad. If I didn’t hold to such a belief, than nothing would be good or bad. The terms would lack any real meaning, if removed from such a goal.

X would just be a series of scientific and historical descriptions of x, absent of any moral quality or judgement.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 5, 2019 at 5:38 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by no one - August 5, 2019 at 8:39 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 5, 2019 at 10:13 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 5, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 5, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 5, 2019 at 5:07 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 7, 2019 at 11:26 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 5, 2019 at 7:36 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 8, 2019 at 8:05 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 8, 2019 at 11:17 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by comet - August 8, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 8, 2019 at 12:07 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 8, 2019 at 12:37 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 8, 2019 at 12:13 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 8, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 8, 2019 at 12:59 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 8, 2019 at 5:06 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 9, 2019 at 11:01 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Alan V - August 9, 2019 at 8:39 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by comet - August 9, 2019 at 5:21 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 9, 2019 at 11:27 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 9, 2019 at 10:13 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 10, 2019 at 12:42 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 10, 2019 at 1:47 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 10, 2019 at 2:31 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 10, 2019 at 3:26 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Belacqua - August 10, 2019 at 11:01 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 10, 2019 at 11:19 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 10, 2019 at 8:46 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Rahn127 - August 10, 2019 at 8:22 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Sal - August 10, 2019 at 10:08 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 6:06 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 7:36 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 9:17 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 10:30 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Belacqua - August 11, 2019 at 10:27 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 11:03 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 10:45 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 10:55 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 11:07 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 11:14 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 11:22 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 11:27 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 11:46 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 11:51 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 3:09 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 6:36 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 10:34 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 10:36 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 10:50 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 10:57 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 11:12 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Sal - August 11, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 12:41 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Sal - August 11, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 11, 2019 at 1:03 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 11, 2019 at 11:34 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 12:16 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 12:34 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 12:57 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 6:44 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 9:33 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 10:29 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:39 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 12:00 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 12:05 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 9:32 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 10:06 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 9:11 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 11:12 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 11:44 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 11:54 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 12:06 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 12:09 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 12:14 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 12:21 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 12:27 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 12:32 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 12:37 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 12:52 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 1:12 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 1:15 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 9:51 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 2:33 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 6:42 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 7:47 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 10:07 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 11:33 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 11:34 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 11:58 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 4:05 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 9:31 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 9:42 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 10:12 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 10:15 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 10:24 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 10:26 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 10:30 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 10:35 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 12, 2019 at 9:08 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 6:04 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 8:08 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 10:01 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 12:43 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 2:12 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 12:09 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by LastPoet - August 13, 2019 at 12:43 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 10:57 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:20 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:52 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 12:26 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 12:32 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 12:51 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 2:01 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 2:26 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 2:35 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 2:44 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 2:58 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 3:50 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 3:58 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 5:07 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 6:15 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 8:34 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 10:04 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Belacqua - August 13, 2019 at 10:37 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:02 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Belacqua - August 13, 2019 at 11:22 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:39 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 6:35 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:09 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 15, 2019 at 10:06 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 7:23 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 16, 2019 at 7:39 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 17, 2019 at 9:28 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 17, 2019 at 10:21 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 10:00 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by EgoDeath - August 13, 2019 at 10:03 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 10:57 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by EgoDeath - August 13, 2019 at 10:17 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:15 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:20 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:27 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 13, 2019 at 11:33 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:42 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:58 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:49 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 14, 2019 at 12:22 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Silver - August 14, 2019 at 2:39 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 8:05 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 8:16 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 8:26 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 8:33 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 8:50 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 8:58 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 9:14 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 9:56 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 10:14 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 10:25 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 14, 2019 at 10:38 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by LastPoet - August 14, 2019 at 12:26 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Rahn127 - August 15, 2019 at 8:31 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 11:23 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 15, 2019 at 11:41 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 16, 2019 at 5:26 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 17, 2019 at 7:11 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 17, 2019 at 9:18 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 17, 2019 at 10:00 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Amarok - August 18, 2019 at 12:06 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 18, 2019 at 6:13 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 18, 2019 at 10:40 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 18, 2019 at 12:16 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 18, 2019 at 3:49 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 19, 2019 at 11:34 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 2:17 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 2:27 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 3:38 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 4:05 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 5:08 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 9:07 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 8:28 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 1:43 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 28, 2019 at 6:48 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 26, 2019 at 10:42 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 23, 2019 at 12:00 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 19, 2019 at 12:59 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 19, 2019 at 5:15 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Grandizer - August 20, 2019 at 10:54 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by LastPoet - August 21, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 23, 2019 at 10:49 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 10:32 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Sal - August 27, 2019 at 10:41 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 11:58 am
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 1:27 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 9:13 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Amarok - August 27, 2019 at 9:43 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 1:45 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 2:07 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 27, 2019 at 7:26 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Amarok - August 27, 2019 at 7:28 pm
RE: How to easily defeat any argument for God - by Acrobat - August 28, 2019 at 8:08 am

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