Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 23, 2025, 2:29 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
A Working Draft Design Argument
#47
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument
(October 17, 2019 at 6:33 am)Nomad Wrote: His conclusions simply do not flow from his premises, again they are assertions. For example he simply asserts determinism is true for nothing more than the simple fact we have a word for it. Truth does not work that way. Actually, IMO proving the universe is deterministic is actually harmful to the god hypothesis, not helpful.

If it’s harmful, then it should just be accepted for the sake of Argument. I’d point out that all request to demonstrate, assumes determinism a priori. Just like a request to decipher what’s true, assume objective truth a prior

Quote:3) The first cause hypothesis falls on the first hurdle in and of itself, vis what makes god the first cause? If god exists then he's part of everything, and if he's part of everything then he too must be a created thing.

I guess the question could be what makes a first cause a God? Either way I didn’t use the word God in my argument. You’ll still have first cause, that assigns meaning and values to reality in a deterministic universe, even if you don’t want to call it God.

Quote:Value is subjective, a lump of anthracite was far more valuable in 19th century England than in 5th century CE Yucutan, simply because 200 years ago people knew a lot more about coal, what they could do with it and so on than 2,500 years ago. And it has since lost some of that value, because we know a lot more of the problems with using it.

All knowledge of reality is derived from our experience of reality. Meaning and values are a part of that experience. In a deterministic reality terms like subjective and objective have no clear line. If I program a robot to value yellow balls, from the perspective of the robot is this value anymore subjective or objective, than the ball he’s programmed to see?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 13, 2019 at 7:13 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Belacqua - October 13, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 13, 2019 at 7:31 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 13, 2019 at 9:00 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 13, 2019 at 10:24 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 13, 2019 at 10:48 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 13, 2019 at 11:09 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 13, 2019 at 11:41 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 13, 2019 at 11:57 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 12:03 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 12:12 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 12:28 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 12:41 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 4:36 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Anomalocaris - October 14, 2019 at 6:28 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 15, 2019 at 6:26 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Anomalocaris - October 15, 2019 at 3:34 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by downbeatplumb - October 15, 2019 at 2:55 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 14, 2019 at 4:33 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 8:10 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 9:05 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 9:17 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 9:52 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 9:59 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 10:11 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 14, 2019 at 10:32 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 14, 2019 at 5:05 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 15, 2019 at 7:44 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 15, 2019 at 4:34 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Abaddon_ire - October 17, 2019 at 3:25 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Brian37 - October 14, 2019 at 6:49 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by chimp3 - October 15, 2019 at 7:54 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 15, 2019 at 8:21 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by chimp3 - October 15, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 15, 2019 at 9:34 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by chimp3 - October 15, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 15, 2019 at 7:37 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by chimp3 - October 15, 2019 at 8:01 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 16, 2019 at 7:16 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by chimp3 - October 16, 2019 at 7:12 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Cod - October 15, 2019 at 8:07 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 16, 2019 at 3:49 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Pat Mustard - October 16, 2019 at 6:05 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Pat Mustard - October 17, 2019 at 6:33 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Belacqua - October 17, 2019 at 7:08 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Acrobat - October 17, 2019 at 12:59 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 17, 2019 at 7:13 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Pat Mustard - October 19, 2019 at 10:28 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Deesse23 - October 16, 2019 at 11:04 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 17, 2019 at 6:44 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Belacqua - October 18, 2019 at 6:36 am
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 18, 2019 at 1:42 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Anomalocaris - October 18, 2019 at 2:01 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Abaddon_ire - October 18, 2019 at 2:44 pm
RE: A Working Draft Design Argument - by Grandizer - October 18, 2019 at 3:10 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Intelligent Design (brief overview). Mystic 70 17415 May 9, 2018 at 2:17 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Intelligent (?) Design Minimalist 12 5094 August 21, 2017 at 1:23 am
Last Post: Minimalist
  If God of Abraham is true, then why didnt he use his intelligent design to make a new Roeki 129 56483 July 9, 2017 at 2:11 am
Last Post: Astonished
  Working backwards. Mystic 52 13170 February 26, 2017 at 6:19 pm
Last Post: Athene
  The stupid "Apex" "design" argument..... Brian37 23 7295 March 4, 2016 at 11:32 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
Video Intelligent Design, The Designer is Drunk! Mental Outlaw 6 2567 March 15, 2015 at 6:24 pm
Last Post: robvalue
  Why intelligent design "proofs" are pointless robvalue 27 7873 September 13, 2014 at 4:14 pm
Last Post: fr0d0
  I find it hilarious when men argue intelligent design. Lemonvariable72 10 5090 December 3, 2013 at 6:03 am
Last Post: Mothonis
  Derren Brown on 'Intelligent' Design Gooders1002 0 1318 December 8, 2012 at 6:20 am
Last Post: Gooders1002
  Prayer not working zebo-the-fat 84 42119 November 11, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Last Post: IATIA



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)