Real Men

[Shell B]

@Shell B That's precisely the point. Intention does matter. Would you deny that the "Saving private Ryan" narrative isn't heroic? Even though it's a ridiculously unrealistic example, ostensibly they were doing that because they were ordered to, but none of them wanted to. There may have been movie trope heroic moments, the core reason they were there was not heroic. Was there a point, in that movie, for example where anyone appeared heroic to you? Why? Was it because of their actions or because it's a movie and we were hyper-focused on understanding the narrative on why they are doing what they're doing? The same applies to the firefighter scenario. It's not the fact they charge into burning buildings to save people by itself. It because they knew the probability was low and did it anyway.

All of this is part of the core of why I consider a "real man" someone that sacrifices and makes the right decision, even when it's hard.

I don't think it does matter. Even if you're ordered to, you have a choice. There is no moment before a heroic act where you don't have a choice to do something else. They didn't want to, but they didn't back down. Having that tenacity and moving forward is the heroic act. No one who's a hero wants to do what they're doing. You think guys want to jump on grenades to save their buddies or run out into the open to be killed by the enemy just so that they can get a signal to call for help, to save the rest of their unit? These men don't have to do any of that because of their jobs. They are trained to do it because of their jobs, but they still need the character and they are still heroes.