(March 30, 2020 at 6:44 pm)Vicki Q Wrote:(March 29, 2020 at 10:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Mark, of course, does not have an Virgin Birth narrative, and Matthew & Luke offer varying versions; Paul seems either ignorant and/or disinterested entirely. As for John, it's irrelevant, as for him and his community, Jesus was preexistent to his birth.
I doubt, in the extreme, that either Matthew or Luke's account contain any real history, other than the fact (probably historical) that Jesus was born in Nazareth. We have the extreme tale of King Herod's "massacre of the innocents" not recorded by any contemporary pagan or Jewish historians, and as such, most modern scholars regard it as being myth and/or fable, which makes the whole of Matthew's account, written nearly a century after the supposed events completely suspect.
Matthew and Luke do deal with the birth of Jesus differently, but both agree in their statement of a virgin birth. Because the two accounts are so different, it seems reasonable to say that the Early Church believed in the virgin birth. Some Christians think that's how it was; others find it helpful to place that belief in a tray marked 'maybe' and still others in a tray marked 'wrong'. Variable mileage.
Problem that I have with your arguments is that you are being far too selective in your sources. Consider this from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas:
Quote:Chapter 3
(1) The son of Annas the scribe was standing there with Jesus. Taking a branch from a willow tree, he dispersed the waters which Jesus had gathered. (2) When Jesus saw what had happened, he became angry and said to him, "You godless, brainless moron, what did the ponds and waters do to you? Watch this now: you are going to dry up like a tree and you will never produce leaves or roots or fruit."
(3) And immediately, this child withered up completely. Then, Jesus departed and returned to Joseph's house. (4) The parents of the one who had been withered up, however, wailed for their young child as they took his remains away. Then, they went to Joseph and accused him, "You are responsible for the child who did this."
Are the above events historical? If not, why not? Or, why so?
Infancy Gospel of Thomas