Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 3, 2024, 4:15 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why not deism?
RE: Why not deism?
(July 16, 2020 at 9:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What made you think that the universe had a will to begin with?

Because the universe is most likely a mind and minds tend to have wills.

But although I recognized that the universe's mind is not like ours it didn't, before, occur to me that its therefore not likely to have a will because wills seem to not just be innate properties of minds: wills seem to be evolved properties of complex minds.

I mean, to be fair to myself I saw the universe's mind in terms of its thoughts being basically our minds, and the minds of other beings, big and small, complex and simple .... that made up a bigger mind overall ... but, still, I'm not sure what it would mean to say that the universe has a unified will. But then even our wills are not always unified. So it's confusing.

I guess, one way of putting it is that if the universe has a will it may not have a will in addition to the wills of smaller beings that are part of it ... and if it does have a will in addition to those wills then its will may be so different that there isn't really any meaningful sense in which we can call it a will. I'm not sure if the universe wills anything because I'm not sure if the universe wants anything ... apart from the trivial fact that our wills, and the wills of other beings, are part of it. Although wills can be conflicted I think it's really one will per being. Many desires but one will. And for that reason I guess the universe either has a will completely unlike our own so as to make the word "will" meaningless in such a case or the universe, in and of itself, doesn't have a will at all.

(July 16, 2020 at 10:01 pm)masoni Wrote: pantheism is too vague and can be easily taken to mean theism, deism or atheism.

Yeah, I agree, and that was my eventual conclusion as well. And I only briefly used the term after realizing that some people didn't like my use of the words "deism" and "deist" because it was hard to explain why I didn't consider the god I believed in to qualify as interventionist.

If I knew of a term that meant pantheism + a cosmic mind then I would use that.
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 1:22 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 15, 2019 at 1:42 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 15, 2019 at 1:49 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 2:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Fake Messiah - September 15, 2019 at 2:06 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 2:19 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by downbeatplumb - September 15, 2019 at 2:30 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 2:38 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by downbeatplumb - September 16, 2019 at 1:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 15, 2019 at 6:09 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 8:27 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 15, 2019 at 9:40 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 10:51 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 16, 2019 at 12:17 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 16, 2019 at 7:26 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 16, 2019 at 9:42 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 16, 2019 at 10:39 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 16, 2019 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 16, 2019 at 11:00 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 16, 2019 at 11:04 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by brewer - September 16, 2019 at 11:08 am
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 16, 2019 at 7:08 am
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 15, 2019 at 2:54 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 3:10 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 15, 2019 at 3:58 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 15, 2019 at 4:12 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 16, 2019 at 8:08 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 15, 2019 at 4:12 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Objectivist - September 17, 2019 at 1:45 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Alan V - September 15, 2019 at 4:42 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by brewer - September 15, 2019 at 5:13 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 15, 2019 at 6:59 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Rahn127 - September 15, 2019 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Acrobat - September 16, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - September 16, 2019 at 9:27 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 16, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Nay_Sayer - September 16, 2019 at 1:04 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by mordant - September 16, 2019 at 7:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 16, 2019 at 8:13 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 16, 2019 at 9:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 16, 2019 at 10:17 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 16, 2019 at 10:25 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 17, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 18, 2019 at 11:09 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 18, 2019 at 11:52 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 12:02 am
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 12:22 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 19, 2019 at 12:43 am
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 12:48 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 19, 2019 at 1:10 am
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 1:20 am
RE: Why not deism? - by LastPoet - September 19, 2019 at 12:43 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 12:51 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Objectivist - September 19, 2019 at 12:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 7:03 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 7:31 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 7:42 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 19, 2019 at 7:31 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 7:40 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by mordant - September 16, 2019 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by brewer - September 16, 2019 at 8:49 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Nay_Sayer - September 16, 2019 at 9:11 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2019 at 8:49 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Nay_Sayer - September 17, 2019 at 11:18 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Objectivist - September 17, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: Why not deism? - by LastPoet - September 17, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - September 17, 2019 at 2:28 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by LastPoet - September 17, 2019 at 2:37 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - September 17, 2019 at 2:40 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by LastPoet - September 17, 2019 at 3:17 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 17, 2019 at 4:04 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - September 17, 2019 at 4:20 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 17, 2019 at 2:36 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2019 at 2:37 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 17, 2019 at 3:10 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 17, 2019 at 9:45 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - September 18, 2019 at 2:37 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Cecelia - September 18, 2019 at 5:47 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 18, 2019 at 10:35 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 8:22 am
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 10:49 am
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 10:54 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 6:34 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 6:44 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 7:38 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 7:46 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 7:54 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 8:07 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Belacqua - September 19, 2019 at 8:22 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 8:32 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Belacqua - September 19, 2019 at 10:06 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 10:21 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Belacqua - September 19, 2019 at 10:59 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 11:08 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Belacqua - September 19, 2019 at 11:33 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 11:36 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Belacqua - September 20, 2019 at 12:29 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 25, 2019 at 1:09 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 25, 2019 at 4:14 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 8:30 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by chimp3 - September 19, 2019 at 8:47 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Belacqua - September 19, 2019 at 8:01 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 10:59 am
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 11:14 am
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 12:07 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Objectivist - September 19, 2019 at 12:48 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 1:16 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 19, 2019 at 1:20 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 1:20 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 19, 2019 at 1:23 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 1:23 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 19, 2019 at 6:55 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by tackattack - September 19, 2019 at 5:26 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 5:29 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 8:40 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 19, 2019 at 8:45 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 8:46 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 9:11 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2019 at 11:03 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by EgoDeath - September 20, 2019 at 8:18 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Fake Messiah - September 24, 2019 at 11:17 am
RE: Why not deism? - by mordant - September 24, 2019 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Succubus - September 25, 2019 at 5:44 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Rahn127 - September 26, 2019 at 1:51 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2019 at 1:58 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 26, 2019 at 2:28 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 26, 2019 at 5:29 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - September 26, 2019 at 6:37 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 26, 2019 at 6:55 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - September 26, 2019 at 8:20 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 26, 2019 at 8:49 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 27, 2019 at 8:15 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 27, 2019 at 6:49 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 27, 2019 at 7:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 30, 2019 at 2:29 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 30, 2019 at 3:34 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 30, 2019 at 7:48 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 30, 2019 at 9:59 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Jackalope - October 1, 2019 at 9:39 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - October 1, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 26, 2019 at 6:49 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Valkyrie - September 26, 2019 at 5:54 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Rahn127 - September 27, 2019 at 6:29 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Anomalocaris - September 30, 2019 at 8:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 30, 2019 at 8:19 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Anomalocaris - September 30, 2019 at 9:43 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - September 30, 2019 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - September 30, 2019 at 11:07 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - October 1, 2019 at 5:07 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - October 1, 2019 at 10:14 am
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 1, 2019 at 5:58 am
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - October 1, 2019 at 10:25 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - October 1, 2019 at 9:12 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - October 2, 2019 at 12:18 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Inqwizitor - October 3, 2019 at 12:38 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - October 3, 2019 at 6:27 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Jackalope - October 1, 2019 at 9:42 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by LastPoet - October 4, 2019 at 3:04 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2019 at 6:13 am
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - October 3, 2019 at 6:37 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - October 4, 2019 at 9:23 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - October 7, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Ricardo - October 7, 2019 at 5:23 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 7, 2019 at 7:42 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - October 8, 2019 at 9:09 am
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 8, 2019 at 1:20 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - October 9, 2019 at 8:51 am
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 9, 2019 at 12:15 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Anomalocaris - October 9, 2019 at 1:58 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 9, 2019 at 2:25 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Anomalocaris - October 9, 2019 at 2:37 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - October 9, 2019 at 4:30 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by mordant - October 9, 2019 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - October 9, 2019 at 6:25 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 9, 2019 at 6:43 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Simon Moon - October 9, 2019 at 7:02 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Anomalocaris - October 9, 2019 at 8:27 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 9, 2019 at 7:03 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by possibletarian - October 9, 2019 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - October 10, 2019 at 9:00 am
RE: Why not deism? - by mordant - October 10, 2019 at 10:19 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - October 15, 2019 at 10:04 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Cod - October 16, 2019 at 4:46 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Mister Agenda - October 16, 2019 at 8:38 am
RE: Why not deism? - by AniKoferBo - July 9, 2020 at 10:30 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - July 10, 2020 at 9:36 am
RE: Why not deism? - by AniKoferBo - July 10, 2020 at 10:02 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Grandizer - July 10, 2020 at 11:34 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Abaddon_ire - July 10, 2020 at 8:21 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by AniKoferBo - July 10, 2020 at 8:54 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by onlinebiker - July 10, 2020 at 12:36 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Porcupine - July 16, 2020 at 6:14 am
RE: Why not deism? - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2020 at 9:51 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Porcupine - July 17, 2020 at 3:39 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 17, 2020 at 4:15 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Porcupine - July 17, 2020 at 4:21 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 17, 2020 at 4:48 am
RE: Why not deism? - by AniKoferBo - July 16, 2020 at 10:01 pm
RE: Why not deism? - by Porcupine - July 17, 2020 at 4:50 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 17, 2020 at 4:55 am
RE: Why not deism? - by Porcupine - July 17, 2020 at 5:31 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Is Atheism a Religion? Why or why not? Nishant Xavier 91 5345 August 6, 2023 at 1:38 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Deism: I don't get it robvalue 114 13729 February 16, 2015 at 5:55 pm
Last Post: emilynghiem
  Whats the point of deism? tor 21 6324 March 19, 2014 at 11:05 pm
Last Post: MindForgedManacle
  Religion, Atheism, and Deism -and the middle ground. Mystic 6 3366 March 9, 2014 at 2:41 am
Last Post: rsb
  Why, Why,Why! Lemonvariable72 14 3593 October 2, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Last Post: Doubting Thomas
  Refute a first cause which most people would call G-d AKA Deism xdrgnh 63 20172 May 12, 2013 at 6:26 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  WHY WHY WHY??!?!? JUST STOP...... Xyster 18 5257 March 18, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Last Post: Zenith



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)