Nudger, I'm going to skip quoting since it's beginning to get unwieldy. I don't think the sound analogy applies because, again my point isn't about a lack of sentient observers. Sound is what we describe as waves through a medium, so we know that sound exists when a tree falls regardless of whether there is anyone to hear it. There is no sound in space because there is no medium upon which it could act. That is how I see morality in a lifeless universe. It doesn't exist because there are no sentient agents and morality can only be meaningfully defined in terms of sentient agents. You don't have to have a third party observer to witness a slapping in the face, but you need a sentient agent to do the slapping for us assign moral significance to it. There also must be some notion in this universe that slapping is contrary to goals agreed on by more than one person. In a universe comprise solely of sado-masochists, slapping might be the moral thing to do.
As for agreement to goals, if we can't agree on at least some goals, then we're not going to make any progress debating morality. There may be situations in which killing a baby is the moral choice, though I suspect they would have to be quite contrived -- maybe the situation in the Omen for example. I can't ever see that causing unnecessary pain could be morally justified, however, so the immorality of "curb stomping," a loaded term if there ever was one, is something on which I think I could get pretty widespread moral agreement. And I'm not calling my view anything in particular. I'm just describing it.
As for agreement to goals, if we can't agree on at least some goals, then we're not going to make any progress debating morality. There may be situations in which killing a baby is the moral choice, though I suspect they would have to be quite contrived -- maybe the situation in the Omen for example. I can't ever see that causing unnecessary pain could be morally justified, however, so the immorality of "curb stomping," a loaded term if there ever was one, is something on which I think I could get pretty widespread moral agreement. And I'm not calling my view anything in particular. I'm just describing it.
