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What are Laws of Nature?
#41
RE: What are Laws of Nature?
(March 22, 2022 at 9:13 am)polymath257 Wrote:
(March 21, 2022 at 4:26 pm)Helios Wrote: They often do but that sort only points out the problem. After all, why would you need to do that if there wasn't a bias? Plus I wasn't just talking about publication. The research itself in these fields have been highly male-centric

For instance medical trials 
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle...cal-trials

https://theconversation.com/gender-bias-...isk-156495

First, let's separate the sciences that study humans from those that do not.

For the sciences that do not, are the conclusions invalidated because women are under-represented in the sciences?

I would say not, although because of lack of diversity (and thereby for alternative explanations), the progress will be slower. Any time intelligent people are excluded from participating, the progress of science will slow. But, I also believe the correct conclusions eventually arise, are tested, and are accepted.

It should be pointed out that new ideas in science are *always* challenged and 'put through a wringer'. That is how it should be and does not, in and of itself, represent bias. It is important that the new ideas be challenged, compared to available evidence, be subject to criticism (even harsh criticism), etc. This is how science is, and should be done. And it is true for men who propose new ideas (Gould and Eldridge for Punctuated Equilibria come to mind) as it is for women and other groups.

For those sciences that *do* study humans, the male bias is much more pronounced and dangerous. Again, lack of diversity is the basic problem, along with the default assumption that 'all people are like me'. Because of this, situations where men and women differ in their responses (diseases, social responsibilities, etc) will not be studied in the ways necessary for the correct application to women. As your articles point out, the health of women is harmed by this bias. But, in the same way, the health of those of under-represented races is also harmed for the same reasons.

These are situations where, because the studies are not suitably designed, the conclusions derived can be wrong and dangerous for those not part of the study. To some degree, it comes down to realizing that race or gender can be a relevant factor for care.

But let's be clear. The basic ideas of science: that we need to test our ideas and challenge them in as many cases as possible, and that conclusions should always be seen as current approximations are *still* good and required. The problem comes when biases mean we don't test as fully as we should or consider alternatives when we should.

But the scientific method itself isn't gender dependent, nor race dependent.

I just can't imagine a more unrealistic and ivory-tower conception of scientific inquiry. 

This idea that we can just silo off the macho "hard sciences" like physics that deal with the absolute truth of how reality is from those "soft sciences" where we're dealing with human beings being human is just way too convenient for my liking. You're still dealing with historically and culturally embedded agents conducting research in institutional contexts where there's politics, funding, vested interests, reputations and prestige at stake. Women and minorities are at a disadvantage in the world of the sciences in the same way as they are elsewhere in society: straight white men have long been the ones to establish cultural, institutional, and industry consensus, and they have been socialized to identify challenges to these consensus realities as threats to the social order rather than intriguing opportunities for progress.

I'm afraid I don't look at science through the same rose-colored glasses you do. We can teach schoolchildren that "the correct conclusions eventually arise, are tested, and are accepted," but anyone who understands the history and philosophy of science realizes that there are many other factors that influence which questions are asked, who gets to ask them, and what qualifies as a correct conclusion than the disinterested and noble quest for Truth.
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Messages In This Thread
What are Laws of Nature? - by vulcanlogician - March 20, 2022 at 5:48 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Angrboda - March 20, 2022 at 5:54 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by vulcanlogician - March 20, 2022 at 6:04 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 20, 2022 at 6:50 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 20, 2022 at 6:25 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Architect Of Fate - March 20, 2022 at 6:33 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by onlinebiker - March 20, 2022 at 6:34 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Anomalocaris - March 21, 2022 at 12:51 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 20, 2022 at 6:48 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Angrboda - March 20, 2022 at 6:51 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by vulcanlogician - March 22, 2022 at 5:36 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Paleophyte - March 21, 2022 at 12:44 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 21, 2022 at 6:14 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 21, 2022 at 7:08 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 21, 2022 at 7:15 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 21, 2022 at 9:01 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Mister Agenda - March 21, 2022 at 12:53 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Anomalocaris - March 21, 2022 at 1:10 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 21, 2022 at 1:46 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by HappySkeptic - March 21, 2022 at 1:59 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 21, 2022 at 3:06 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by HappySkeptic - March 21, 2022 at 3:14 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 21, 2022 at 3:29 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by arewethereyet - March 21, 2022 at 3:52 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 21, 2022 at 3:34 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Architect Of Fate - March 21, 2022 at 3:57 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Jehanne - March 21, 2022 at 4:05 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Architect Of Fate - March 21, 2022 at 4:26 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Anomalocaris - March 21, 2022 at 4:42 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Jehanne - March 21, 2022 at 4:57 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by polymath257 - March 22, 2022 at 9:13 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 22, 2022 at 10:06 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by polymath257 - March 22, 2022 at 1:54 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by HappySkeptic - March 22, 2022 at 1:58 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Architect Of Fate - March 22, 2022 at 6:09 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by polymath257 - March 23, 2022 at 8:09 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Anomalocaris - March 21, 2022 at 2:35 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by brewer - March 21, 2022 at 8:18 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by vulcanlogician - March 22, 2022 at 5:17 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by brewer - March 22, 2022 at 5:31 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by polymath257 - March 21, 2022 at 9:22 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Jehanne - March 21, 2022 at 10:06 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Jehanne - March 21, 2022 at 12:56 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 21, 2022 at 3:17 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 21, 2022 at 3:51 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 21, 2022 at 4:09 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Architect Of Fate - March 21, 2022 at 4:45 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Disagreeable - March 22, 2022 at 8:48 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 22, 2022 at 10:14 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Istvan - March 22, 2022 at 10:54 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Belacqua - March 22, 2022 at 5:00 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 22, 2022 at 11:08 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by polymath257 - March 22, 2022 at 11:59 am
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 22, 2022 at 12:50 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by polymath257 - March 22, 2022 at 1:31 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 22, 2022 at 12:52 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by brewer - March 22, 2022 at 12:52 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Anomalocaris - March 22, 2022 at 1:44 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Jehanne - March 22, 2022 at 1:46 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 22, 2022 at 1:52 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by The Grand Nudger - March 22, 2022 at 2:05 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Jehanne - March 22, 2022 at 5:02 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Anomalocaris - March 22, 2022 at 5:04 pm
RE: What are Laws of Nature? - by Rahn127 - March 23, 2022 at 9:15 am

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