Turkey's role in middle eastern politics

[kılıç_mehmet]

It is to the extent that you have been spoonfed it. People are people, no matter their race. You are not part of an elite. You just happen to have been born in a certain place.

That's your answer to everything. I'm just a poor child who has been spoon-fed the vile ideology of nationalism. Just because I do not accept the blatant lies of our enemies, does not mean that I have to be raised by my parents to do so.
I do not claim to be part of an elite. The majority of the Turks do not believe in the falsified genocide.

Where, exactly? Did I say that you killed a bunch of people? Have I ever said that all members of a certain race are bad because of the actions of a few. Do not project your shortcomings onto me. Your country has its flaws, like all countries, but I do not blame all Turks for the mistakes of the past.

As I said, you're going to tell me that you didn't mean to say that. But that's how it usually goes. Even if you geniunely meant that, the bill and the stain is upon us all. Just like the bill and the stain is upon the Germans even today. They have alredy been classified as the "Tätervolk"
once. They are told that they must feel guilty for the doings of the Germans during the third reich. I do not accept guilt for something that not me, neither my ancestors have done.
Besides, it's not really up to you to determine who to blame. As you're not an armenian, the armenians do not really care about your opinion here...

Why would I say that? I have never used that phrase in reference to myself in a conversation with you that I can recall. I meant it exactly as I said it. Turks went around killing people -- your people committed acts of genocide. Did I say every Turk did it?

Does it really matter? The Turkish army is being shown as the perpetrator. And the army is put together from Turks, not from anyone else.
So what difference does it make? Do I make a cut through the Turks and say, "these are the guilty ones, I don't even know them!". No. I do not desert my people at the first sign of someone blaming us for something(which they do every year, for something new. I'm hoping for a martian genocide next year).

Bullshit. You really have no idea about what goes on outside of your bubble, do you? I have never heard someone blame every Turk for what happened, especially given that none of the perpetrators are alive that I know of.

Sure, sure. Just keep telling yourself that. Again, you probably never met an armenian either.

Don't be a child. I listed more than one method of killing. You are being willfully obtuse. I would like to think that will go away with age, but I don't think I can chalk up all of your methods of communicating to age. I think it's a defense mechanism.

And I don't think that these methods actually represent reality at all.
I mean, poisoning people? How many people do you hope to "exterminate" with that?
Like if you said, they lined them up and shot them, it would sound believable. But from what I've googled, it states that doctors have given them poison shots and willfully infected them with bacteria. It reeks so much of bullshit that it stinks to high heaven.
No one goes through such elaborate ways to exterminate anyone.

Don't be stupid. Drowning and poisoning is not that much trouble. The Nazis used to line up groups of people, tie them all together on a bridge and shoot one so the whole lot would fall into the water and be unable to swim out. It's simple, really. Poisoning is even simpler. The killers controlled the food they ate. You could take out thousands with arsenic when the only food they have is what you give them.

Simpler. And how many do you think that were taken out in this way?
I'm sure that it won't amount anything near 10.000 even if it were true.

No, it wasn't. The U.S. had nothing to do with the trials, save a few witnesses, that I am aware of.

By you, I mean the allied forces. However, it was the US that have outlined the borders of a "Wilsonian Armenia", drawn by the US president Woodrow Wilson, whom the armenians still quote, and try to get an already unratified treaty accepted in the international political scene.

I don't care what you believe. It is clear that you will only believe what suits you. What I do care about is not reading your bullshit and saying nothing to refute it when I know better. Sure, you will never change your mind out of a ridiculous sense of self that is derived solely from your country. That doesn't mean someone else reading this thread might not decide to actually read something on the topic after reading your ludicrous claims.

No, it's clear that you believe whatever you want to. I said that the same courts have declared the Turkish liberation army as traitors, testifying to how the courts were working in favour of the allied occupation in Istanbul . But soon after we had captured a number of British officers, they were eager to hand them back to us, showing that the arrests and trials were mostly political in nature.

So you had a coward for a Sultan? That was your country's only fault in the matter? Give me a break.

Well, a fault that was corrected by our country's founding father.
He deposed of him, and he fled back to his British masters. Good riddence. After the war was won, the monarchy was done away with for good, and the power was given to the Turkish people.

Even genocide? I believe your statement to mean that your countrymen are capable of anything great. Correct me if I am wrong. I must say, judging by how I see that statement, it reeks of hubris. Why is Turkey not a world power?

What I meant by that was when it comes to Turks, even if only a single person suffered a minor nosebleed, people would talk of it for ages and ages and tell others that how badly the Turks beat the man to death and etc. and etc. That's how it is possible.
For why Turkey is not a world power...Well, it simply ain't. Do we seek to be a world power at all? Not with these borders, no.
And we already see the "world powers" in the world, doing their misdeeds all around the world...We do not want the world. We just want ourselves, for ourselves.

From the Turkish coalition, eh? It doesn't matter. The pictures of dead Armenians are real. Who was with them is irrelevant.

İrrelevant? I don't think so. The armenians are seeking to make this more and more dramatical, and they generally extend the period of "genocide" to the point when Kazım Karabekir destroyed their little "Wilsonian Armenia", and reinstated Turkish borders and made pacts with the newly formed Soviet state.

Yeah, that one way or the other should have been military in nature if your country cared at all about being decent, at that point. This is why killing civilians is forbidden under international law, barring specific circumstances. What happened to the Armenians falls under crimes against humanity because it did not involve military or militia.

Yeah. It didn't involve "militia"? You don't say...As I already said, Armenian irregulars were used not only by the Russians, they were also used by the French, and they did not only attack Turkish positions, but also the civies. So when we load them up and ship their asses to Syria where they can't bother us no more, we're committing a crime against humanity, oh great. I already said that numerous accounts on the part of Turks describe armenian armed gangs roaming the countryside. They were organized,however, they were trying to carve out a piece of land in which they were a minority. That's what spelled doom for their little revolution.
And yeah, the blue book still stands as the one true pillar to which all the proponets of the genocide cling to. A book of slander and propaganda.

I didn't say your women were at fault. I said theirs were not.

It was clear. The armenians in eastern provinces were to be relocated to prevent further armed attacks against Turkish forces and civillians. When the armenians collaborated with the Russians, they already followed their own path to doom.

Yes, genocide always is.

So-called genocide.

That is your problem. You will take nothing that was not written by a Turk into account. You're being stubborn to the point of stunting personal growth.

But I am. There are numerous non-turkish historians contesting the validity of this. However, their voices fall short, and their articles are not being published as much as those who do accept the so-called genocide.
If the west prides itself on the notion of free speech, why do they censor them at every turn, and turn, and blame us for performing censorship on the ones who do accept the so-called genocide in Turkey?
And once again, we are open to talks, yet, the armenians refuse to discuss the matter. They maintain their position that they have nothing to talk, and still go around with their hurr-durr hayk babble about mount Ararat or something and burn a couple more Turkish flags to feel better about themselves.

You are right. I will see that your countrymen, no matter what bullshit you read, cannot sue other countries for documenting what happened in your country. Even if it could, Turkey would lose and lose more respect. You really think Turkey will sue the U.S. and win. Now it is my turn for patriotism. I find the idea of Turkey suing the U.S. and winning positively laughable. How many Ivy League law schools do you have in your country?

Why sue the US? The US has not given into the bullshit of the armenians, and with the Senate, and the Turkish and Jewish lobby having our backs, I'm certain that it never will.
And I'm stating that after this whole bullshit has been blown as false, we will sue all the partaking countries, like France(I'm looking at you Sarkozy) and Switzerland.

Has it ever occurred to you that people who revolt against their governments may have reasons for doing so, or are they just evil "non-turks" who like to cause trouble? Perhaps they were thinking of their children. Imagining their children's lives under an administrator or dictator with ideology that matches your own.

No mr. Lebowski, it has not occured to me.
The armenians revolted with the same intent as the Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, and Arabs did. The reason: to carve themselves their own state from the sick man of Europe, aka the Ottoman empire. However, unlike the nations that I've counted above, they lacked the crucial requirements of being a majority in wherever they revolted. They simply were fools to believe that the Russians would come to carve them a nation just like they did it for the south slavs. They did have a reason, no one is denying it.
Thing is, their reason conflicts with our own interests, and the majority of the people that lived in those lands.
If they did really think of their children, they probably would not have revolted, and they should know it better: armenians were crucial allies in subduing revolts during the growth period of the Ottoman empire, and along with kurds, have indeed contributed to the thinning of the Shia-Alevi Turkish population of southeastern Anatolia. That's one of the reasons why they were called "the loyal people". Not even for a single time throughout Ottoman History have they revolted against the empire,
until WWI.