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Maximizing Moral Virtue
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue
(June 25, 2022 at 12:52 am)Belacqua Wrote: It isn't fair to say that all anti-abortion people rely on 1) cuteness, or 2) emotional dispositions toward similarity. To assume that they do would be to ignore, for example, the arguments from potency and act. Since such arguments are ancient and are assumed by many people to be rational, anyone who claims to be able to state anti-abortion reasoning in fair terms would need to be aware of this.

I may need to look up "act and potency," so let me know if I'm getting it wrong. But whatever it is, I'd like to see how this argument is applied differentially to non-human developing mammals in utero, let alone to post-birth offspring.

If you're not vegetarian, then you must either believe or feel human exceptionalism, since you presumably would not tolerate the killing of humans for consumption, or the imposition of suffering in/by an industry with that purpose.

I propose the following reasons for the sense of human exceptionalism, and ask you to provide any that might be missing.
-egocentric bias (anything like me is more important than things unlike me)
-religious proclamations ("God created man in His image.")
-protective instinct ("Squeeee! It's cute, will die if necessary to defend it.")
-valuations of mental superiority: intellect and so on, along with the position that superior intellect makes something intrinsically more valuable.

I'd say egocentric bias in a non sequitur-- things are not intrinsically more value because they are like me.
Religious proclamation is irrelevant to a debate with someone outside your religion. Why should I care what you claim your God says?
Protective instinct is based on the previously-mentioned fallacy-- specifically, the use of "baby" terminology for something that isn't a baby.
Valuations of mental superiority cannot matter when a fetus has no mind at all-- certainly not more than any mammalian fetus.

What, exactly, is being lost in an abortion? There are many "human" things that do not need to preserved: corpses, clumps of hair, excrement. That they are "human" isn't itself enough to merit protection or concern.
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Messages In This Thread
Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 18, 2022 at 5:57 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 18, 2022 at 6:11 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by vulcanlogician - May 20, 2022 at 2:15 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 20, 2022 at 4:05 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - May 18, 2022 at 7:25 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by arewethereyet - May 18, 2022 at 2:08 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by brewer - May 18, 2022 at 7:47 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 8:47 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by brewer - May 18, 2022 at 2:14 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 3:50 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by brewer - May 18, 2022 at 6:01 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by brewer - May 18, 2022 at 8:05 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by onlinebiker - May 18, 2022 at 8:11 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - May 18, 2022 at 8:35 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 8:51 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by zebo-the-fat - May 18, 2022 at 9:09 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 10:17 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Angrboda - May 18, 2022 at 11:25 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Nay_Sayer - May 18, 2022 at 11:53 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - May 18, 2022 at 12:09 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 12:14 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 12:57 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 1:07 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 1:36 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 1:45 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Neo-Scholastic - May 19, 2022 at 10:17 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 1:59 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 2:06 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 2:14 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 4:21 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - May 18, 2022 at 4:33 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by arewethereyet - May 18, 2022 at 6:05 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - May 18, 2022 at 9:47 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 4:37 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Jehanne - May 18, 2022 at 7:43 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2022 at 11:19 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 19, 2022 at 1:29 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 19, 2022 at 4:19 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 19, 2022 at 6:09 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by arewethereyet - May 19, 2022 at 6:15 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 19, 2022 at 6:23 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 20, 2022 at 12:52 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 22, 2022 at 5:13 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - May 28, 2022 at 10:00 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - June 3, 2022 at 10:21 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - June 4, 2022 at 6:52 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - June 5, 2022 at 6:12 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - June 5, 2022 at 11:12 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2022 at 12:25 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 27, 2022 at 5:47 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - May 28, 2022 at 10:08 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2022 at 6:35 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 27, 2022 at 9:46 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - May 27, 2022 at 1:36 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - May 28, 2022 at 6:14 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - June 13, 2022 at 11:57 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2022 at 10:01 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2022 at 10:26 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2022 at 12:17 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - June 3, 2022 at 11:16 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - June 4, 2022 at 5:49 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - June 6, 2022 at 10:30 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Alan V - June 6, 2022 at 10:21 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - June 13, 2022 at 12:27 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 14, 2022 at 8:58 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 5, 2022 at 6:35 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 5, 2022 at 11:30 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2022 at 10:39 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Alan V - June 7, 2022 at 6:34 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2022 at 10:57 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Architect Of Fate - June 6, 2022 at 11:00 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 11, 2022 at 9:44 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 13, 2022 at 1:14 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 16, 2022 at 7:19 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - June 16, 2022 at 8:48 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 16, 2022 at 9:12 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - June 16, 2022 at 10:07 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 24, 2022 at 10:25 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - June 24, 2022 at 10:57 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 24, 2022 at 11:47 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - June 25, 2022 at 12:52 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 25, 2022 at 1:43 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - June 25, 2022 at 2:05 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 25, 2022 at 5:36 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - June 14, 2022 at 9:21 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - June 14, 2022 at 11:43 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - June 15, 2022 at 2:57 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - June 15, 2022 at 9:47 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - June 16, 2022 at 9:53 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 14, 2022 at 11:54 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 15, 2022 at 12:50 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 15, 2022 at 1:46 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 15, 2022 at 2:19 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - June 16, 2022 at 9:25 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - June 16, 2022 at 10:05 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 16, 2022 at 10:28 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - June 16, 2022 at 7:20 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h4ym4n - June 16, 2022 at 8:24 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - June 22, 2022 at 10:44 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Disagreeable - June 22, 2022 at 11:22 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2022 at 11:40 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 23, 2022 at 3:03 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2022 at 3:22 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 23, 2022 at 3:25 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 23, 2022 at 5:59 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 23, 2022 at 1:38 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 24, 2022 at 8:56 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Belacqua - June 23, 2022 at 8:09 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2022 at 8:20 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 23, 2022 at 8:53 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2022 at 9:27 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 23, 2022 at 9:37 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2022 at 10:20 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 24, 2022 at 10:08 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 24, 2022 at 11:17 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 24, 2022 at 11:40 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 24, 2022 at 1:01 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - June 24, 2022 at 1:44 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 24, 2022 at 1:16 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 24, 2022 at 1:36 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 24, 2022 at 2:09 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 24, 2022 at 1:39 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - June 24, 2022 at 2:14 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 24, 2022 at 2:25 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 24, 2022 at 2:31 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Architect Of Fate - June 25, 2022 at 2:38 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Architect Of Fate - June 25, 2022 at 2:41 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2022 at 7:49 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 25, 2022 at 3:31 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2022 at 4:11 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 25, 2022 at 7:10 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by LinuxGal - December 17, 2022 at 12:50 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 26, 2022 at 10:13 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by JC1432 - June 26, 2022 at 11:26 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by downbeatplumb - June 26, 2022 at 2:04 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - June 27, 2022 at 12:34 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - June 27, 2022 at 8:28 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 26, 2022 at 12:08 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2022 at 7:12 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2022 at 8:35 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - July 19, 2022 at 11:11 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2022 at 11:24 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Angrboda - July 19, 2022 at 11:28 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - August 18, 2022 at 9:56 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - August 18, 2022 at 10:00 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2022 at 10:03 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - August 18, 2022 at 8:13 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - August 19, 2022 at 12:45 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - August 25, 2022 at 6:02 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Astreja - August 25, 2022 at 10:10 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by bennyboy - August 26, 2022 at 9:01 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - August 30, 2022 at 11:30 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - August 18, 2022 at 11:20 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Nay_Sayer - August 19, 2022 at 1:56 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2022 at 12:00 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 6:38 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Angrboda - August 26, 2022 at 9:18 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - August 26, 2022 at 9:29 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 9:31 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - September 1, 2022 at 7:45 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - September 2, 2022 at 2:15 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - September 7, 2022 at 2:16 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - September 7, 2022 at 2:58 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - September 2, 2022 at 11:54 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2022 at 8:51 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2022 at 2:26 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2022 at 4:13 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - September 17, 2022 at 3:51 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - September 17, 2022 at 4:35 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2022 at 4:38 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Aegon - September 20, 2022 at 10:10 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2022 at 4:56 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2022 at 5:07 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - September 17, 2022 at 6:28 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by arewethereyet - September 17, 2022 at 7:28 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Fake Messiah - September 17, 2022 at 7:40 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Pat Mustard - September 19, 2022 at 3:04 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2022 at 8:24 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Silver - September 17, 2022 at 8:30 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 18, 2022 at 5:42 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 19, 2022 at 5:07 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Ahriman - September 19, 2022 at 5:14 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by LadyForCamus - September 19, 2022 at 1:58 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h4ym4n - September 19, 2022 at 7:25 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - September 20, 2022 at 10:06 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h4ym4n - September 21, 2022 at 6:55 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Mister Agenda - September 21, 2022 at 9:50 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Angrboda - September 21, 2022 at 10:45 am
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 21, 2022 at 12:23 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by h311inac311 - October 10, 2022 at 12:58 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 10, 2022 at 2:09 pm
RE: Maximizing Moral Virtue - by Objectivist - December 17, 2022 at 10:36 pm

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