(July 20, 2022 at 6:50 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:(May 25, 2022 at 11:19 am)TheJefe817 Wrote: As I go through the process of continually reexamining by beliefs (largely now former beliefs), I remain committed to being open minded and considering all sides of any issue. Honestly, that what has led to my deconversion - considering sources and facts which were hidden/forbidden/shouted down in my world for decades. To that end, I find a lot on the atheist/agnostic/none position which I find very intellectually satisfying and honest. Everyone has their bias, so no one is truly down the middle, but in particular I enjoy reading Shermer, Ehrman, Harris, etc - all the ones you might expect.
So my question is - does anyone have suggetions on where to look on the theist side for something honest? I say that because the sources I am pointed toward by theists tend to feel like sales jobs treading over well-worn arguments (Kalaam, Pascal, gaps, etc) rather than true explorations. I'm getting suggested folks like WL Craig, Habermas, Strobel, Licona - and I just feel like they are all starting with their desired answer and backfilling. Are there others that might provide any satisfying thoughts?
This channel, and this video in particular, might be helpful
Kalam is a fallacious argument. It is invalid in form, and the premises are questionable.
Not to mention, even if it were valid and sound, it still would not demonstrate a god exists.
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
Conclusion: Therefore, the universe has a cause.
God does not appear in either premise, nor the conclusion.
Therefore, Kalam is not an argument for the existence of a god, it is an argument for the existence of a cause for the universe.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
