RE: Does a natural "god" maybe exist?
November 20, 2022 at 6:41 pm
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2022 at 6:52 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
How An Infinite Multiverse Manifests an Eternal God
THEORY
For those who follow the debates, it is well known that the "traditional" Theistic argument for God's existence (often forwarded by Christian Apologists, such as Dr. William Lane Craig) is led by the assertion that a First Cause Event is necessary in explaining the onset of physical reality.
Here is the logical argumentation
1) Physical reality comprises a series of sequential steps of continuously changing states of being.
2) Actualized Infinity does not, in a "real" sense exist (one cannot “reach” an infinite number of countable items or discrete finite measues). Infinity only exists in theory in the field of mathematics.
3 The series of sequential steps leading from our past to our present state cannot therefore be infinitely long, and the start of the chain of events cannot exist quiescently for an eternal period (another type of disallowed infinity) prior to emerging into activity, hence physical reality at some point began to exist.
4) All things which begin to exist, based on observation, always have a cause or an unstable temporal state before it, to serve as explanation as to how it came into existence in the first place.
5) That which caused physical reality, cannot be "physical" in itself, because that is what is being brought into being. Nor can it be an infinite continuation of prior temporal steps of any “non-physical” kind, because actualized infinity also cannot exist. So ultimately there must be a first step or cause to all changes of state.
6) The ultimate cause of physical reality, must be ultimately a timeless, non-physical ground state.
7) Such non-physical “first” cause must be selective (or selectively “turned on”), because if it were timeless and “always active or turned on”, physical reality would be expected to extend to the eternal past (again a disallowed infinity).
8) Selective agents, particularly which act in a “one off” way suggest – or are suspicious for, purpose and intelligence.
9) Therefore there is reasoned hope, that God exists.
See link to Figure Below, A graphical illustration of the traditional Theistic argument of how God, starting out as a timeless plan (Logos), mysteriously morphs into action to create and fine tune our Universe.
As mentioned at the outset, there are logical problems with this argument, one being how can a define-ably "non-physical" agent effect a physical cause? Indeed, once the mechanism is understood how such agent acted would this not just become a newly discovered form of physics?
Also, and most importantly, Atheist's these days simply counter the reasoning by saying - INFINITY CAN BE ACTUALIZED!
That destroys the entire Theistic argument, and more so their “hope”!
But hold your horses!
What is not commonly considered is, that if one assumes Infinity does exist – then one can most certainly postulate our Universe, or Multiverse is infinitely old, or large or both. In fact many Cosmologists these days, are favoring the truth of Infinity, and many plausible cosmological models are presented where our Cosmos indeed, may be past eternal and is of infinite size.
But isn’t it well known that if you have a process with substantial variants (such as molecules, atoms, energy fields etc. ) running and interacting with each other “forever” all possible combinations will eventually form, no matter how unlikely, or how absurd? Moreover, if a Multiverse is infinitely large, with infinite stuff, wouldn’t all possible forms and configurations of matter, inherently be in existence at any one moment, right from the earliest possible moment?
See Figure below. A schematic representation of an infinitely old and infinitely large Universe, which inherently manifests all possibilities, including a maximally powerful consciousness (an image of the Holy Trinity of the Christian Faith is shown).
After the evidence is laid out – one can decide for one-selves, but maybe the Atheist’s have painted themselves into a corner, by asserting the truth of Infinity?
After all, can’t a god, a naturally derived one, "born from infinity so to speak" at least potentially exist?
THEORY
For those who follow the debates, it is well known that the "traditional" Theistic argument for God's existence (often forwarded by Christian Apologists, such as Dr. William Lane Craig) is led by the assertion that a First Cause Event is necessary in explaining the onset of physical reality.
Here is the logical argumentation
1) Physical reality comprises a series of sequential steps of continuously changing states of being.
2) Actualized Infinity does not, in a "real" sense exist (one cannot “reach” an infinite number of countable items or discrete finite measues). Infinity only exists in theory in the field of mathematics.
3 The series of sequential steps leading from our past to our present state cannot therefore be infinitely long, and the start of the chain of events cannot exist quiescently for an eternal period (another type of disallowed infinity) prior to emerging into activity, hence physical reality at some point began to exist.
4) All things which begin to exist, based on observation, always have a cause or an unstable temporal state before it, to serve as explanation as to how it came into existence in the first place.
5) That which caused physical reality, cannot be "physical" in itself, because that is what is being brought into being. Nor can it be an infinite continuation of prior temporal steps of any “non-physical” kind, because actualized infinity also cannot exist. So ultimately there must be a first step or cause to all changes of state.
6) The ultimate cause of physical reality, must be ultimately a timeless, non-physical ground state.
7) Such non-physical “first” cause must be selective (or selectively “turned on”), because if it were timeless and “always active or turned on”, physical reality would be expected to extend to the eternal past (again a disallowed infinity).
8) Selective agents, particularly which act in a “one off” way suggest – or are suspicious for, purpose and intelligence.
9) Therefore there is reasoned hope, that God exists.
See link to Figure Below, A graphical illustration of the traditional Theistic argument of how God, starting out as a timeless plan (Logos), mysteriously morphs into action to create and fine tune our Universe.
Administrator Notice
Link removed.
~Image taken with permission from "Does Ggod Exist? A disspassionate treatise", Hoffmann, Springer publisher, 2021.Link removed.
As mentioned at the outset, there are logical problems with this argument, one being how can a define-ably "non-physical" agent effect a physical cause? Indeed, once the mechanism is understood how such agent acted would this not just become a newly discovered form of physics?
Also, and most importantly, Atheist's these days simply counter the reasoning by saying - INFINITY CAN BE ACTUALIZED!
That destroys the entire Theistic argument, and more so their “hope”!
But hold your horses!
What is not commonly considered is, that if one assumes Infinity does exist – then one can most certainly postulate our Universe, or Multiverse is infinitely old, or large or both. In fact many Cosmologists these days, are favoring the truth of Infinity, and many plausible cosmological models are presented where our Cosmos indeed, may be past eternal and is of infinite size.
But isn’t it well known that if you have a process with substantial variants (such as molecules, atoms, energy fields etc. ) running and interacting with each other “forever” all possible combinations will eventually form, no matter how unlikely, or how absurd? Moreover, if a Multiverse is infinitely large, with infinite stuff, wouldn’t all possible forms and configurations of matter, inherently be in existence at any one moment, right from the earliest possible moment?
See Figure below. A schematic representation of an infinitely old and infinitely large Universe, which inherently manifests all possibilities, including a maximally powerful consciousness (an image of the Holy Trinity of the Christian Faith is shown).
Administrator Notice
Link removed,
~Image taken from "Does Ggod Exist? A dispassionate treatise.", Hoffmann, Springer publisher, 2021 Link removed,
After the evidence is laid out – one can decide for one-selves, but maybe the Atheist’s have painted themselves into a corner, by asserting the truth of Infinity?
After all, can’t a god, a naturally derived one, "born from infinity so to speak" at least potentially exist?
