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What if Judas didn't do it?
RE: What if Judas didn't do it?
(March 31, 2023 at 9:06 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: Humans are everywhere. There is evidence that humans exist.

And I think that anyone who has experience of humans knows that they are often illogical. We are extremely good at justifying unwise behavior, and finding reasons to work against our own best interests. 

If you reject a story because the characters behave illogically, then I'd say you are ignoring both logic and history.

Moreover, if we want to think about how and why people behave illogically, it's very useful to read fiction. (And fiction, by definition, doesn't "stick to the facts.") The unwise behavior of the protagonists actually constitutes a main reason why we read Proust or Dostoevsky or Iris Murdoch. Among many others. 

Remember that Phaedrus asks Socrates whether he thinks the Greek myths are true or not. Socrates answers that he doesn't care. Since the main project for each of us is to "know thyself," Socrates uses the myths to question whether and to what extent he is like the characters in the stories. It is reasonable and historical to read ancient literature with this goal in mind, and to assume that, like Plato, the writers wrote it with this goal in mind. 

Quote:The Bible is not a history book. It is primarily a religious book and I think the bar is set very low when it comes to sticking to the facts.

Are there any sola scriptura literalist Christians posting on this forum? If you're arguing against people who are absent -- literalist believers -- then you have a point. 

But "sticking to the facts" in the way that journalism or a modern history book sticks to the facts has never been the point of spiritual literature. It is meant as a provocation, as a challenge, as a puzzlement to inspire. Reading it through the lens of a category error will cause illogical and ahistorical misreadings, both for Christians and for atheists.
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Messages In This Thread
What if Judas didn't do it? - by Fake Messiah - February 16, 2023 at 10:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 16, 2023 at 10:26 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 16, 2023 at 10:50 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 16, 2023 at 11:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 17, 2023 at 10:39 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 17, 2023 at 11:35 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 17, 2023 at 11:54 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - February 17, 2023 at 12:24 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - February 17, 2023 at 12:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 17, 2023 at 1:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 18, 2023 at 4:17 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 18, 2023 at 5:11 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 18, 2023 at 7:54 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 18, 2023 at 8:05 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 18, 2023 at 8:30 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 18, 2023 at 9:08 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 19, 2023 at 3:44 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 19, 2023 at 5:31 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 19, 2023 at 6:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 20, 2023 at 1:04 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Rev. Rye - February 20, 2023 at 9:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - February 18, 2023 at 8:35 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - February 19, 2023 at 6:42 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - February 19, 2023 at 2:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - February 19, 2023 at 7:11 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 20, 2023 at 4:45 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 20, 2023 at 4:15 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Rev. Rye - February 20, 2023 at 5:26 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 20, 2023 at 11:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 30, 2023 at 8:32 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - March 30, 2023 at 11:34 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 9:38 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - March 31, 2023 at 2:38 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 9:06 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - March 31, 2023 at 9:41 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 11:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - March 31, 2023 at 11:38 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 1, 2023 at 12:46 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 1, 2023 at 2:42 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 1, 2023 at 3:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 1, 2023 at 4:04 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 1, 2023 at 4:39 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 12:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 1, 2023 at 7:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 1, 2023 at 9:13 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 6:54 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 11:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 7:28 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 8:31 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 3, 2023 at 11:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 3, 2023 at 11:43 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 4, 2023 at 12:43 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 4, 2023 at 1:47 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 8:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 8:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - April 10, 2023 at 9:01 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 9:03 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - April 10, 2023 at 9:10 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 9:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 9:07 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 9:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 10:41 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Valkyrie - April 10, 2023 at 10:50 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 11, 2023 at 10:09 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 11, 2023 at 10:12 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2023 at 12:51 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 2, 2023 at 8:06 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 8:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Mister Agenda - February 20, 2023 at 12:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 20, 2023 at 5:37 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 20, 2023 at 6:33 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Rev. Rye - February 20, 2023 at 9:32 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 21, 2023 at 1:52 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Pat Mustard - February 23, 2023 at 8:28 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 22, 2023 at 11:29 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 22, 2023 at 10:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 1:28 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 23, 2023 at 2:01 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 3:10 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 23, 2023 at 3:42 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 23, 2023 at 5:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 9:56 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 23, 2023 at 7:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 23, 2023 at 7:49 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 25, 2023 at 11:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 25, 2023 at 11:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 25, 2023 at 11:57 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 26, 2023 at 12:03 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 26, 2023 at 12:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 27, 2023 at 12:09 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 27, 2023 at 11:33 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 24, 2023 at 1:11 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 23, 2023 at 7:20 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 12:56 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 23, 2023 at 1:12 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 23, 2023 at 4:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Pat Mustard - February 23, 2023 at 5:19 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Architect Of Fate - February 23, 2023 at 7:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 8:06 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Architect Of Fate - February 23, 2023 at 8:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 23, 2023 at 11:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 24, 2023 at 1:51 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 24, 2023 at 1:19 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 8:19 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 8:32 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 23, 2023 at 11:26 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 11:46 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 24, 2023 at 1:34 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 25, 2023 at 10:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 24, 2023 at 1:52 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Paleophyte - February 25, 2023 at 1:39 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Fake Messiah - February 27, 2023 at 4:41 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 25, 2023 at 10:21 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 25, 2023 at 11:55 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 27, 2023 at 12:20 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 12:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Architect Of Fate - February 27, 2023 at 12:33 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 2:58 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 27, 2023 at 3:05 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 3:33 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2023 at 9:29 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 8:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 7:57 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2023 at 9:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 9:03 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 8:37 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 9:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 9:44 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 9:56 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2023 at 10:22 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 12:45 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 12:54 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 28, 2023 at 5:51 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:00 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:01 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:24 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:26 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:34 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:41 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:46 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:48 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:50 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:57 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 28, 2023 at 5:26 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 5:29 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 28, 2023 at 5:40 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 6:10 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 7:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 9:10 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 6:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2023 at 4:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by HappySkeptic - March 2, 2023 at 4:17 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2023 at 5:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - March 2, 2023 at 5:54 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2023 at 9:24 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2023 at 10:28 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 8:56 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - March 31, 2023 at 2:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2023 at 2:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 3, 2023 at 10:56 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 1, 2023 at 4:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Goosebump - April 1, 2023 at 6:00 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 1, 2023 at 6:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 1, 2023 at 6:53 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2023 at 9:07 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2023 at 7:04 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 2, 2023 at 12:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 12:36 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 12:39 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 1:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 2:57 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 3:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 3:28 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 7:34 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - April 2, 2023 at 4:59 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Valkyrie - April 2, 2023 at 6:10 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 7:42 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 9:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - April 2, 2023 at 9:44 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 11:07 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 3, 2023 at 9:30 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 3, 2023 at 10:38 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 3, 2023 at 7:57 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 12:17 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 1:18 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 1:50 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 4, 2023 at 2:03 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 9:57 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Lek - April 9, 2023 at 10:30 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 9, 2023 at 10:33 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Lek - April 9, 2023 at 10:50 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Fake Messiah - April 10, 2023 at 1:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 10, 2023 at 2:52 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 8:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2023 at 12:00 am

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