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What if Judas didn't do it?
RE: What if Judas didn't do it?
(April 1, 2023 at 9:13 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Perhaps the difference is in the ordering: I would say that the events gives birth to the message, whereas Neo might say the message gives birth to the events.

Yes, this makes sense. 

It seems to me undeniable that, at least in the New Testament, the authors are basing their narratives on things that happened. Jesus was real, and he had some kind of impact on those around him. The extent to which they then mold the story to conform with traditional hero narratives, or invent details for the purpose of making a point, remains open to interpretation. 

So I suspect that both views are true in part -- events sometimes prompt the narrative, but messaging sometimes prompts fable-like tales. 

I'm reminded of how for hundreds of years philosophers would write dialogues and attribute them to Plato, because they were certain this was something he would have written if he'd had time. By modern standards this is forgery, but they felt that attaching Plato's name was appropriate and justified. Likewise I think that a story like that of the woman taken in adultery (which, if I remember right, is only in John) might have been an invention of the author because he felt it conveyed something true and important about Jesus's message. Or the events of Pentecost might have been "exaggerated for clarity" because some people felt strongly a change in spirit, and the author wanted a dramatic way of depicting that.

And I'm curious about your take on this. We agree it's not intended as disinterested journalism, but exactly what we should call it remains an interesting question.
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Messages In This Thread
What if Judas didn't do it? - by Fake Messiah - February 16, 2023 at 10:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 16, 2023 at 10:26 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 16, 2023 at 10:50 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 16, 2023 at 11:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 17, 2023 at 10:39 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 17, 2023 at 11:35 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 17, 2023 at 11:54 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - February 17, 2023 at 12:24 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - February 17, 2023 at 12:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 17, 2023 at 1:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 18, 2023 at 4:17 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 18, 2023 at 5:11 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 18, 2023 at 7:54 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 18, 2023 at 8:05 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 18, 2023 at 8:30 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 18, 2023 at 9:08 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 19, 2023 at 3:44 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 19, 2023 at 5:31 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 19, 2023 at 6:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 20, 2023 at 1:04 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Rev. Rye - February 20, 2023 at 9:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - February 18, 2023 at 8:35 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - February 19, 2023 at 6:42 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - February 19, 2023 at 2:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - February 19, 2023 at 7:11 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 20, 2023 at 4:45 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 20, 2023 at 4:15 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Rev. Rye - February 20, 2023 at 5:26 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - February 20, 2023 at 11:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 30, 2023 at 8:32 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - March 30, 2023 at 11:34 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 9:38 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - March 31, 2023 at 2:38 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 9:06 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - March 31, 2023 at 9:41 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 11:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - March 31, 2023 at 11:38 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 1, 2023 at 12:46 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 1, 2023 at 2:42 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 1, 2023 at 3:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 1, 2023 at 4:04 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 1, 2023 at 4:39 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 12:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 1, 2023 at 7:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 1, 2023 at 9:13 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 6:54 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 11:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 7:28 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 8:31 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 3, 2023 at 11:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 3, 2023 at 11:43 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 4, 2023 at 12:43 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 4, 2023 at 1:47 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 8:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 8:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - April 10, 2023 at 9:01 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 9:03 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by h4ym4n - April 10, 2023 at 9:10 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 9:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 9:07 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 10, 2023 at 9:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 10:41 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Valkyrie - April 10, 2023 at 10:50 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 11, 2023 at 10:09 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 11, 2023 at 10:12 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2023 at 12:51 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 2, 2023 at 8:06 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 8:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Mister Agenda - February 20, 2023 at 12:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 20, 2023 at 5:37 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 20, 2023 at 6:33 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Rev. Rye - February 20, 2023 at 9:32 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 21, 2023 at 1:52 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Pat Mustard - February 23, 2023 at 8:28 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 22, 2023 at 11:29 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 22, 2023 at 10:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 1:28 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 23, 2023 at 2:01 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 3:10 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 23, 2023 at 3:42 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 23, 2023 at 5:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 9:56 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 23, 2023 at 7:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 23, 2023 at 7:49 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 25, 2023 at 11:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 25, 2023 at 11:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 25, 2023 at 11:57 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 26, 2023 at 12:03 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 26, 2023 at 12:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 27, 2023 at 12:09 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 27, 2023 at 11:33 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 24, 2023 at 1:11 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 23, 2023 at 7:20 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 23, 2023 at 12:56 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 23, 2023 at 1:12 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 23, 2023 at 4:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Pat Mustard - February 23, 2023 at 5:19 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Architect Of Fate - February 23, 2023 at 7:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 8:06 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Architect Of Fate - February 23, 2023 at 8:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 23, 2023 at 11:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 24, 2023 at 1:51 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 24, 2023 at 1:19 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 8:19 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 8:32 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 23, 2023 at 11:26 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2023 at 11:46 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 24, 2023 at 1:34 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Objectivist - February 25, 2023 at 10:14 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 24, 2023 at 1:52 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Paleophyte - February 25, 2023 at 1:39 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Fake Messiah - February 27, 2023 at 4:41 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by brewer - February 25, 2023 at 10:21 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 25, 2023 at 11:55 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 27, 2023 at 12:20 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 12:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Architect Of Fate - February 27, 2023 at 12:33 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 2:58 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 27, 2023 at 3:05 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 3:33 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2023 at 9:29 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 8:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 7:57 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2023 at 9:00 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 9:03 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 8:37 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - February 27, 2023 at 9:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 9:44 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 27, 2023 at 9:56 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - February 27, 2023 at 10:22 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 12:45 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 12:54 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 28, 2023 at 5:51 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:00 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:01 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:24 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:26 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:34 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:41 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:46 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 1:48 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:50 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 1:57 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 28, 2023 at 5:26 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 5:29 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 28, 2023 at 5:40 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 6:10 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - February 28, 2023 at 7:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 9:10 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - February 28, 2023 at 6:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2023 at 4:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by HappySkeptic - March 2, 2023 at 4:17 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2023 at 5:02 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - March 2, 2023 at 5:54 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2023 at 9:24 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2023 at 10:28 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - March 31, 2023 at 8:56 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - March 31, 2023 at 2:40 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2023 at 2:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 3, 2023 at 10:56 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 1, 2023 at 4:27 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Goosebump - April 1, 2023 at 6:00 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 1, 2023 at 6:45 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 1, 2023 at 6:53 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2023 at 9:07 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2023 at 7:04 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 2, 2023 at 12:20 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 12:36 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 12:39 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 1:12 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 2:57 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 3:16 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 2, 2023 at 3:28 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 7:34 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Angrboda - April 2, 2023 at 4:59 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Valkyrie - April 2, 2023 at 6:10 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 7:42 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by John 6IX Breezy - April 2, 2023 at 9:18 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Silver - April 2, 2023 at 9:44 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 2, 2023 at 11:07 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 3, 2023 at 9:30 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Belacqua - April 3, 2023 at 10:38 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 3, 2023 at 7:57 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 12:17 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 1:18 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 1:50 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 4, 2023 at 2:03 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2023 at 9:57 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Lek - April 9, 2023 at 10:30 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by arewethereyet - April 9, 2023 at 10:33 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Lek - April 9, 2023 at 10:50 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Fake Messiah - April 10, 2023 at 1:14 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - April 10, 2023 at 2:52 am
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Ferrocyanide - April 10, 2023 at 8:58 pm
RE: What if Judas didn't do it? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2023 at 12:00 am

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