(December 8, 2011 at 12:32 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Couple concerns I have over the topic of the "historical Jesus":
1. What do you mean by "historical Jesus"?
An actual individual.
Jesus without the miracles and divinity?
Yes.
You don't have much of anything left.
Right.
It's kind of like saying "historical Superman but without all the super powers".
Yes, sort of like that. A Jesus that was deified by his followers.
2. The Gospels themselves have never offered a coherent story that can be reconciled internally, with each of the four accounts or with history. There's no need to look for any evidence to confirm the story if the story itself is incoherent.
What do you mean by "the story?" As we would expect, there are several "stories" of Jesus within early Christianity. For example, the Letter of James reflects a tradition that differs from Paul. Jame's audience were Messianic believing Jews while Paul preached a cosmic Christ of Hellenistic Judaism. Also, we know that the gospels contain different literary layers with their own story, such as we find in Q or gMark.
3. Christian apologists will say there's no 1st century extra-Biblical accounts of Jesus because he was an obscure rabbi that only preached to the poor.
The inside/outside the Canon distinction is methodologically irrelevant.
Yet the Gospel accounts say that his ministry was both successful and controversial.
Yes, the final form of all four gospels hold that view. But in gMark, we have Jesus presented as a tragic hero (There is no resurrection episode in gMark).
Like with many other aspects of apologetics, they tie themselves into knots trying to have things both ways.
I am no apologist for the Gospel's propaganda.
4. If you're going to debate the historical Jesus, be prepared for what I call "scholars say shuffle". You will waste an incredible amount of time and energy trying to nail them down while they try to portray you as some kind of conspiracy crackpot. Looking back at my own debates on the subject, it's not worth it. Stick with a critical review of the Bible. That's time better spent.
I have come to the same conclusion. No one is answering some simple questions I posed. I wish I had some dust on my sandals.
