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Morality
#10
RE: Morality
(May 17, 2023 at 4:27 pm)Kingpin Wrote: Alright guys I'm going to  Dead Horse

Yeah. Done2Death. Did I mention that I'd actually be interested in an argument that wasn't the same old rehashed balderdash? Let me kick this off by asking how you have the stones to complain about objective morality while cherry-picking the scripture you claim to get yours from?

Quote:Richard Dawkins stated this that there is no good, no evil, DNA just is and we dance to it's music.  Agree or disagree on that piece?

Fails by way of trying to oversimplify. The man who begot the concept of the meme should have known that humans dance to more than a single tune.

Quote:When one gives up Christian belief one thereby deprives oneself of the right to Christian morality… Christianity is a system, a consistently thought out and complete view of things. If one breaks out of it a fundamental idea, the belief in God, one thereby breaks the whole thing to pieces: one has nothing of any consequence left in one’s hands.
- Friedriche Nietzsche (atheist), Twilight of the Idols p.12

Nietzsche died raving and spent much of his life in a similar state. You might not want to put too much stock in him. That said, I have no problem with abandoning "Christian morality". Given what it's been caught doing behind closed doors I'm amazed that the Christians haven't given up on it too. Feels like it was marked down because you had to use it before 300 AD or it started to curdle.

Quote:We have not been able to show that reason requires the moral point of view, or that all really rational persons should not be individual egoists or classical amoralists. Reason doesn’t decide here. The picture I have painted for you is not a pleasant one. Reflection on it depresses me ...Pure practical reason, even with a good knowledge of the facts, will not take you to morality.
- Kai Nielsen (atheist), “Why should I be moral?” American Philosophical Quarterly 21, 1984: 90

Nope. Morality is just the necessary interactions of any social species. You can get computers to produce it in even relatively simple models.

Quote:Outside human desires there is no moral standard.
- Bertrand Russell (atheist), 

Nailed it. Find me a single instance of justice, mercy, honour, or dignity that exists independent of a sentient being. Morality is a human invention.

You seem to like quoting atheists at us, as if that means something. How are you with:

"Kill them all. God will know his own."
- Arnaud Amalric, The Massacre at Beziers


Quote:In this naturalistic worldview, when you state something is good/evil, right/wrong, isn't that just pure subjective opinion that ebbs/flows with societal/cultural acceptance and personal opinion?  If so, on what basis can one judge any act as wrong/evil both in different cultures/societies or different eras without it merely being personal preference and thus have no grounding in truth.

This is pretty simple, but since you'll insist on trying to mystify it here's morality in a nutshell.

(1) If I hit my hand with a hammer it hurts like hell. So I don't do that.

(2) If a society lets it members hit each others hands with hammers it hurts every bit as much.

(3) So either a society develops morals against this harmful behaviour or it fails and is supplanted by one that does.

Precisely zero gods required and it neatly explains both why almost every society has strict prohibitions against beating the snot out of some other poor bugger and why it's simultaneously acceptable, and even encouraged, to do precisely that to some poor bugger who doesn't belong to your group. Because we're a bunch of nasty little savages evolved for small social groups. Your scripture is rife with examples of good believers doing exactly that.

We actually need to over-ride the very limited instinctive morality that evolution has granted us, but which was never evolved to manage more than a basic hunter-gatherer society. To actually arrive at a global civilization that doesn't sprout some inconvenient mushroom clouds you have to really use the very reason that Nielsen laments. Using some serious skull sweat to avoid the tribalistic instincts of our species became necessary to our survival round about the time we mechanized warfare. Splitting the atom just upped the ante. And in doing so we disprove that quote from Dawkins by refusing to dance to our DNA's self-destructive song.
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Messages In This Thread
Morality - by Kingpin - May 17, 2023 at 4:27 pm
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 17, 2023 at 4:35 pm
RE: Morality - by Kingpin - May 17, 2023 at 4:42 pm
RE: Morality - by HappySkeptic - May 17, 2023 at 5:03 pm
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 17, 2023 at 5:13 pm
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 17, 2023 at 4:56 pm
RE: Morality - by no one - May 17, 2023 at 5:07 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 17, 2023 at 5:23 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 17, 2023 at 6:52 pm
RE: Morality - by Paleophyte - May 17, 2023 at 10:05 pm
RE: Morality - by Deesse23 - May 18, 2023 at 3:02 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2023 at 7:34 am
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 18, 2023 at 7:41 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 18, 2023 at 8:24 am
RE: Morality - by Kingpin - May 18, 2023 at 9:45 am
RE: Morality - by Deesse23 - May 18, 2023 at 11:00 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 18, 2023 at 11:05 am
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 18, 2023 at 11:13 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 18, 2023 at 11:19 am
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 18, 2023 at 11:28 am
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 22, 2023 at 11:07 pm
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 23, 2023 at 5:48 am
RE: Morality - by Belacqua - May 23, 2023 at 6:32 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 23, 2023 at 6:59 am
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2023 at 8:00 am
RE: Morality - by Deesse23 - May 23, 2023 at 8:48 am
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2023 at 3:33 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 23, 2023 at 4:46 pm
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 25, 2023 at 10:40 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 26, 2023 at 5:15 am
RE: Morality - by Mister Agenda - May 26, 2023 at 8:55 am
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 23, 2023 at 4:59 pm
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 23, 2023 at 8:17 pm
RE: Morality - by Deesse23 - May 24, 2023 at 2:41 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 23, 2023 at 10:11 am
RE: Morality - by GUBU - May 27, 2023 at 8:32 am
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 23, 2023 at 7:39 am
RE: Morality - by Deesse23 - May 23, 2023 at 8:33 am
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 23, 2023 at 11:08 am
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 23, 2023 at 5:03 pm
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 23, 2023 at 5:38 pm
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 23, 2023 at 5:49 pm
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 23, 2023 at 6:33 pm
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 24, 2023 at 4:36 am
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 24, 2023 at 1:13 pm
RE: Morality - by Deesse23 - May 23, 2023 at 8:29 am
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 23, 2023 at 5:51 am
RE: Morality - by Paleophyte - May 18, 2023 at 5:58 pm
RE: Morality - by Mister Agenda - May 19, 2023 at 9:21 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2023 at 10:00 am
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 18, 2023 at 12:17 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 18, 2023 at 12:31 pm
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 18, 2023 at 6:02 pm
RE: Morality - by brewer - May 18, 2023 at 6:30 pm
RE: Morality - by Astreja - May 18, 2023 at 10:00 pm
RE: Morality - by Gawdzilla Sama - May 18, 2023 at 10:02 pm
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 18, 2023 at 11:04 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 19, 2023 at 4:00 am
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 19, 2023 at 4:26 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 19, 2023 at 7:46 am
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 19, 2023 at 8:37 am
RE: Morality - by Kingpin - May 19, 2023 at 8:55 am
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 19, 2023 at 10:46 am
RE: Morality - by Kingpin - May 19, 2023 at 8:58 am
RE: Morality - by A. Secular Human - May 22, 2023 at 4:28 pm
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 22, 2023 at 6:24 pm
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 22, 2023 at 8:26 pm
RE: Morality - by Anomalocaris - May 22, 2023 at 11:07 pm
RE: Morality - by emjay - May 23, 2023 at 4:44 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 19, 2023 at 9:03 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 19, 2023 at 9:34 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 19, 2023 at 10:03 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 19, 2023 at 12:35 pm
RE: Morality - by GUBU - May 19, 2023 at 1:57 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 19, 2023 at 3:17 pm
RE: Morality - by GUBU - May 20, 2023 at 3:19 am
RE: Morality - by HappySkeptic - May 21, 2023 at 1:57 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 21, 2023 at 7:29 pm
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 22, 2023 at 10:52 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2023 at 4:08 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2023 at 8:00 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2023 at 5:12 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 23, 2023 at 7:26 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 23, 2023 at 8:31 pm
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 23, 2023 at 8:48 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2023 at 9:54 am
RE: Morality - by Anomalocaris - May 26, 2023 at 10:42 am
RE: Morality - by HappySkeptic - May 26, 2023 at 11:02 am
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 26, 2023 at 11:42 am
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 27, 2023 at 3:11 pm
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 27, 2023 at 3:31 pm
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 28, 2023 at 11:20 am
RE: Morality - by arewethereyet - May 28, 2023 at 1:37 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 27, 2023 at 3:45 pm
RE: Morality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 27, 2023 at 6:24 pm
RE: Morality - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 28, 2023 at 3:09 pm
RE: Morality - by GUBU - May 29, 2023 at 1:50 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 28, 2023 at 11:39 am
RE: Morality - by Angrboda - May 28, 2023 at 12:46 pm
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 29, 2023 at 8:06 am
RE: Morality - by Fake Messiah - May 31, 2023 at 6:38 am
RE: Morality - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2023 at 6:48 am

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