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What we lack?
#29
What we lack?
(December 11, 2011 at 8:31 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:
(December 11, 2011 at 4:52 am)JollyForr Wrote: By spiritual, it simply means what I mentioned earlier; it isn't a belief in a spiritual.

Well don't call it spiritual then.

Whatever next? Murder but not in the murdering sense? I tickle your feet until you laugh, I haven't murdered you but it's murder? I'd just call it tickling you.

I do get what you are trying to say, so there is no point going over it again. Just I have major, major problems with the word spiritual in the context you are using it. Sam Harris and the like need to come up with a different word, like humanist or something.


(December 11, 2011 at 2:46 am)The Profit Ezekiel Wrote: Personally, I do feel a need for a connectedness to a greater whole

"A need"? It seems that you are looking for something.
Well, yes, of course, aren't you?

Why would there be anything to find?
Again, this isn't about anything specific or tangible. I have a hard time with words sometimes, let me pull from The End Of Faith by Sam Harris, "The basis of our spirituality surely consists in this: the range of possible human experience far exceeds the ordinary limits of our subjectivity. Clearly, some experiences can utterly transform a person's vision of the world. Every spiritual tradition rests on the insight that how we use our attention, from moment to moment, largely determines the quality of our lives. Many of the results of spiritual practice are genuinely desirable, and we owe it to ourselves to seek them out. It is important to note that these changes are not merely emotional but cognitive and conceptual as well. Just as it is possible for us to have insights in fields like mathematics or biology, it is possible for us to have insights about the very nature of our own subjectivity. A variety of techniques, ranging from the practice of meditation to the use of psychedelic drugs, attest to the scope and plasticity of human experience. For millennia, contemplatives have known that ordinary people can divest themselves of the feeling that they call "I" and thereby relinquish the sense that they are separate from the rest of the universe. This phenomenon, which has been reported by practitioners in many spiritual traditions, is supported by a wealth of evidence—neuroscientific, philosophical, and intro- spective. Such experiences are "spiritual" or "mystical," for want of better words, in that they are relatively rare (unnecessarily so), significant (in that they uncover genuine facts about the world), and personally transformative. They also reveal a far deeper connection between ourselves and the rest of the universe than is suggested by the ordinary confines of our subjectivity."
Sorry for the length but it is such a difficult concept for me to try to express. I think Sam gets very close to it here though.

This connectedness to a greater whole or whatever is a concept that requires faith and belief it actually exists. Next stop deism.
I can see how you can draw that connection but don't agree that it has to be deism. This "greater whole or whatever" is exactly right, a "whatever". A great big placeholder for "I don't know". A feeling of something more, something greater, something universal. Not necessarily a god, creator, architect, like in deism. Not a being of any sort, just an unaccounted-for level of human consciousness that allows us to remove the "I", and sit in the now to observe.
Man that sounds bad. Should not have read that into to Philosophy...because I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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Messages In This Thread
What we lack? - by Cleveland Skeptic - December 9, 2011 at 9:32 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 2:41 pm
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 10, 2011 at 2:55 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 3:02 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Ziploc Surprise - December 10, 2011 at 3:09 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Cleveland Skeptic - December 10, 2011 at 3:14 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 3:14 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Voltair - December 10, 2011 at 3:37 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 3:46 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Cleveland Skeptic - December 10, 2011 at 3:59 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 4:11 pm
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 10, 2011 at 6:14 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 6:19 pm
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 10, 2011 at 6:25 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 6:33 pm
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 10, 2011 at 6:57 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 7:14 pm
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 10, 2011 at 7:19 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 7:21 pm
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 10, 2011 at 7:33 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 7:50 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Shell B - December 10, 2011 at 7:56 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 8:08 pm
RE: What we lack? - by padraic - December 10, 2011 at 8:20 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 8:34 pm
What we lack? - by The Profit Ezekiel - December 11, 2011 at 2:46 am
RE: What we lack? - by JollyForr - December 11, 2011 at 4:52 am
RE: What we lack? - by Norfolk And Chance - December 11, 2011 at 8:31 am
What we lack? - by The Profit Ezekiel - December 12, 2011 at 2:56 am
RE: What we lack? - by houseofcantor - December 12, 2011 at 3:12 am
RE: What we lack? - by Galileo - December 12, 2011 at 8:46 am
RE: What we lack? - by houseofcantor - December 12, 2011 at 4:01 pm
RE: What we lack? - by Galileo - December 12, 2011 at 11:09 pm
RE: What we lack? - by houseofcantor - December 13, 2011 at 1:10 am

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