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Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
#1
Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
Before answering, bear in mind that there is no physical mechanism known, or proposed, for water to have memory. Nor what this would actually mean. If water did have memory then the tap water that we drink would have conflicting and interacting memories from being recycled through the sewer system. Also that homeopathic pills do not have a single molecule of the original substance left in it. Add to that absolutely no evidence that it provides any benefit.

Things to consider:

Why homeopathy is nonsense
Homeopathic uranium 200X and similarly bizarre stories

So a question to sceptics of homeopathy.

Do you know that it doesn't work, or are you just not convinced by claims from practitioners of homeopathy that it is effective?

And if you say that you know that it doesn't work because it violates everything we know about the laws of physics and chemistry and relies upon ambiguous definitions (e.g. water memory), then why can't we same thing about the existence of a god?

At what point can we say for sure that we know that something does not exist or does not work?
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#2
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
I can see no possible way that it could work. Show me two samples of water, one plain water and one with a homeopathic dose so diluted as to be un measurable and show a way to reliably detect the homeopathic water.
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#3
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
I think, by some definitions, there are very few things we "know".

Can I be certain, 100% that there is no all knowing creator, or that homeopathy is bullshit? No. Nor do I claim such knowledge.

What I do know is that both things lack sufficient evidence to convince me, or even persuade me of the probability of either. After looking into both, I consider them to be highly unlikely enough that I can dismiss them in favor of proposals that are more likely.
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― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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#4
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
Homeopathy doesn't work differently from a placebo, therefore, it doesn't work.

I see where you're getting at Tongue
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Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.

Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.

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#5
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
(August 21, 2018 at 8:19 am)Mathilda Wrote: And if you say that you know that it doesn't work because it violates everything we know about the laws of physics and chemistry and relies upon ambiguous definitions (e.g. water memory), then why can't we same thing about the existence of a god?

"Homeopathy works" is a falsifiable hypothesis. "God exists" is not.

You can demonstrate that homeopathy does not work. There is a mountain of evidence that allows us to be certain of this.

Not so with God. So we atheists are going to have to be content with "pretty damn sure" because no amount of evidence will provide complete certainty in the matter.
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#6
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
(August 21, 2018 at 8:27 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: I can see no possible way that it could work. Show me two samples of water, one plain water and one with a homeopathic dose so diluted as to be un measurable and show a way to reliably detect the homeopathic water.

We can't reliably detect any type of god nor can think of any way that we could possibly go about this, yet people still say that they just lack belief in the existence of a god but are otherwise open to the possibility. Are you open to the possibility that homeopathy works?

(August 21, 2018 at 8:33 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: "Homeopathy works" is a falsifiable hypothesis. "God exists" is not.

It is falsifiable if you first define what a god is.

If you can't define what a god is then you can dismiss the notion of a its existence as meaningless.
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#7
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
(August 21, 2018 at 8:33 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(August 21, 2018 at 8:19 am)Mathilda Wrote: And if you say that you know that it doesn't work because it violates everything we know about the laws of physics and chemistry and relies upon ambiguous definitions (e.g. water memory), then why can't we same thing about the existence of a god?

"Homeopathy works" is a falsifiable hypothesis. "God exists" is not.

You can demonstrate that homeopathy does not work. There is a mountain of evidence that allows us to be certain of this.

Not so with God. So we atheists are going to have to be content with "pretty damn sure" because no amount of evidence will provide complete certainty in the matter.
It does work though. It provides a measurable benefit over no treatment at all.

Of course you and I know it's because of the placebo effect, not because of magic memory water, but many believers would just say the placebo effect is BS, and clearly homeopathy works.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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#8
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
Even if the water molecules could "remember" to imitate a different molecule they had once been in contact with, it still doesn't work as the distribution of electric charges on those "remembering" water molecules would be different.


So, it's doubly impossible sine water doesn't remember in the first place.



Imagine the financial incentive for Mexican drug cartels to work out homeopathic heroin or cocaine !!

And no one ever claims they have made that work.
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#9
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
(August 21, 2018 at 8:33 am)Mathilda Wrote: It is falsifiable if you first define what a god is.

If you can't define what a god is then you can dismiss the notion of a its existence as meaningless.

Even if you do clearly define what God is, how can you test the hypothesis?
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#10
RE: Do you know that homeopathy doesn't work, or do you just lack belief that it does?
(August 21, 2018 at 8:41 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Imagine the financial incentive for Mexican drug cartels to work out homeopathic heroin or cocaine !!  

And no one ever claims they have made that work.

Imagine buying some homeopathic pills then taking it back to the shop complaining that it doesn't work because it clearly hasn't been properly diluted. The concept is absurd.

But then so too is the concept of a god

The absolute absurdity of God

(August 21, 2018 at 8:42 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: Even if you do clearly define what God is, how can you test the hypothesis?

Depends how you define it.

If you can define it that is. Personally I don't think it can be properly defined because once you do, you end up with something that isn't a god.

And by define, I mean, explain exactly what it can and cannot do, how it came about, where it gets its energy from, or failing that how you can reliably reproduce some phenomenon that is 'god'.

(August 21, 2018 at 8:30 am)Aroura Wrote: I think, by some definitions, there are very few things we "know".

Can I be certain, 100% that there is no all knowing creator, or that homeopathy is bullshit? No. Nor do I claim such knowledge.

If you climb out the window and let go, do you know that you will not float away on a gentle breeze?

What is more likely, if any? That homeopathy works or that you will float away?

If you can't know that you won't float away then I'd argue that your use of the word 'know' is too restrictive to be useful. Because for all intents and purposes you do know (hint, don't let go if you do try).

Now it may be that someone doesn't know enough about physics and chemistry to say that homeopathy is absurd. But that's different to what a lot of agnostic atheists say about the existence of a god being unknowable. A physicist or chemist knows enough to say that homeopathy does not work. I personally argue that we collectively know enough from the scientific literature to say that a god cannot exist.
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